Ben Stokes vs Kevin Pietersen

[BazBall21]

Pietersen often played one great innings in a series rather than dominate them from start to finish; with the odd exception like India at home in 2011.

He didn't have many lean series either though, his nightmare in UAE was a rare instance. Was fairly consistent at producing the goods in at least one test.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I wonder if Pietersens average would have increased if he played for a few more years

 

[Johan]

I wonder if Pietersens average would have increased if he played for a few more years

he was averaging 38 for his last 3 years from age 32 to 34, if he played until 36 or smth it would've probably fallen under 45.

 

[Al Salvador]

This is his problem that he didn't played Australia at prime. What are the averages of Australian batsman? Care to mention that as well. Smith scored loads of runs in 2017 Ashes I remember very well. Even in last Ashes, just because England batters can't play well there doesn't make those pitches tougher automatically. Australia got 400+ runs three times in that series. Stokes did nothing with ball either. He has to perform to be rated among elite players. If he doesn't then he stands no chance against KP, who stood up against the very best in the business and influenced the course of the game with his batting time and again. Stokes absolutely is a nothing batsman with an average of 32 with bat away from home and that's his main suit.

He missed 2017 series, do you even watch the game?? He played 2013/14 Johnson ashes which is well documented and another one was 2021 when he was out of cricket for 4/5 months and got injured from the first test and played with injury, that was a very low scoring series. You aren't even ready for objective analysis.

 

[sayon basak]

I wonder if Pietersens average would have increased if he played for a few more years

It would have decreased of anything.

 

[BazBall21]

It would have decreased of anything.

Depends how much longer. I'd fancy him to do well in the 2014 summer and 2015 Windies tour.

 

[BazBall21]

He missed 2017 series, do you even watch the game?? He played 2013/14 Johnson ashes which is well documented and another one was 2021 when he was out of cricket for 4/5 months and got injured from the first test and played with injury, that was a very low scoring series. You aren't even ready for objective analysis.

His stats in Australia aren't a reflection of his skill set for the conditions, but he hasn't had a tour there as good as KP 2006/07, and Pietersen was also well suited to Australia.

 

[Al Salvador]

His stats in Australia aren't a reflection of his skill set for the conditions, but he hasn't had a tour there as good as KP 2006/07, and Pietersen was also well suited to Australia.

My only point was he hasn't got flat track in Australia which was the point made by majestic which I feel is disingenuous.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Kp

 

[Majestic]

He missed 2017 series, do you even watch the game?? He played 2013/14 Johnson ashes which is well documented and another one was 2021 when he was out of cricket for 4/5 months and got injured from the first test and played with injury, that was a very low scoring series. You aren't even ready for objective analysis.

See, on what basis are you rating Stokes so high then? One, you want him to get a flat track in Australia to prove his worth as a batsman and then you can't even justify how his bowling has been bad outside England. Bowling occasionally due to injury is not a right justification to consider him a great all rounder. He has to perform and do well outside of England and South Africa to be considered a great player.

Pietersen has played such knocks against most opponents in most conditions. He was not the most consistent player but neither has been Stokes by any stretch as he himself averages 35 but KP did had the ability to produce a great knock with bat every now and then and he did it in most conditions.

Stokes hasn't done it in Asia and Australia yet. Him getting injured in 2017 Australia tour is not a good excuse nor the one that he didn't got a flat track, the pitches were good enough for batting that he could have hit atleast one ton there over a course of 5 tests in last series but it didn't came off and ultimately that's the reality. Until he plays one match winning knock in India or Australia, he can't be considered a great player. Root has done it in India, South Africa, Sri Lanka while Stokes has done it in South Africa only outside home conditions.

 

[Majestic]

other than third test, the india series wasn't particularly close.

135 at Ashes 2019 for one, is a better knock than the Wankhede inning, The Wankhede inning is good but there is nothing crazy about it other than it looking great, Cook and Pietersen both did well that inning and made everyone believe in us winning, but it was Cook who lead England to win in the other three matches and it was his ATG tour. Ashes 2005 is decent and Pietersen did well in the final match with the 158, that I'd give him.

uhm, at home he did great for example? English conditions are hard to bat in and have been for a decade, and I never said he is a 40 averaging Batsmen, but as I said his last 80 or so test have come with battling average of 38 and bowling average of 29, those are better than a 47 averaging batsmen from 2000s, both have memorable performances and are clutch so KP gets no advantage there

That bowling average of 29 is misleading which is what I have been trying to prove. How many wickets he picked in those 80 tests? 29 average gives an incorrect representation of his bowling calibre because he has barely been an all rounder by any stretch in this decade. He doesn't even have 2 WPM and that's minimum you need. For example, in this decade, Stokes played 45 tests and all he has managed is 64 wickets at avg of 29. Does that 29 avg qualifies him as all rounder? Definitely No for me.

KP has memorable performances in alien conditions of Australia and Asia too. Stokes lacks it. In India, he has played a lot of tests too but the only ton he got was on the flattest wicket he could get in 2017, 1st test where three English players hit ton and the match was drawn.

 

[BazBall21]

See, on what basis are you rating Stokes so high then? One, you want him to get a flat track in Australia to prove his worth as a batsman and then you can't even justify how his bowling has been bad outside England. Bowling occasionally due to injury is not a right justification to consider him a great all rounder. He has to perform and do well outside of England and South Africa to be considered a great player.

Pietersen has played such knocks against most opponents in most conditions. He was not the most consistent player but neither has been Stokes by any stretch as he himself averages 35 but KP did had the ability to produce a great knock with bat every now and then and he did it in most conditions.

Stokes hasn't done it in Asia and Australia yet. Him getting injured in 2017 Australia tour is not a good excuse nor the one that he didn't got a flat track, the pitches were good enough for batting that he could have hit atleast one ton there over a course of 5 tests in last series but it didn't came off and ultimately that's the reality. Until he plays one match winning knock in India or Australia, he can't be considered a great player. Root has done it in India, South Africa, Sri Lanka while Stokes has done it in South Africa only outside home conditions.

Stokes is increasingly a passenger with the bat in Asian conditions (the 85 in Bangaldesh was his best knock there) but he does have a few good performances with the ball there.

 

[Johan]

That bowling average of 29 is misleading which is what I have been trying to prove. How many wickets he picked in those 80 tests? 29 average gives an incorrect representation of his bowling calibre because he has barely been an all rounder by any stretch in this decade. He doesn't even have 2 WPM and that's minimum you need. For example, in this decade, Stokes played 45 tests and all he has managed is 64 wickets at avg of 29. Does that 29 avg qualifies him as all rounder? Definitely No for me.

KP has memorable performances in alien conditions of Australia and Asia too. Stokes lacks it. In India, he has played a lot of tests too but the only ton he got was on the flattest wicket he could get in 2017, 1st test where three English players hit ton and the match was drawn.

again, England has three fast bowlers for most of that, our pace unit has been good enough for Stokes to not bowl too much, whenever he does bowl he is impressive and gets clutch wickets, I'm fine with an all rounder not bowling much when you got three specialist pacers in the side at all times. sure you can always see a stats seat and say he isn't bowling much but actually watching cricket contextualizes why he doesn't bowl much, it doesn't take away from his credibility as a pacer however.

KP has some memorable knocks in Aus, stokes has some memorable spells, Stokes isn't a better batsmen than Pietersen obviously, nobody said he was, fact is again, a 37-38 averaging Batsmen averaging 30 against the ball is more compareable to a 50 averaging batsmen than a 47 averaging one from 2000s.

also the India Stokes faces is orders of magnitudes stronger than the one KP faced.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Stokes is increasingly a passenger with the bat in Asian conditions (the 85 in Bangaldesh was his best knock there) but he does have a few good performances with the ball there.

Also at first innings at Hyderabad where he played well strokes has got starts in india but failed to get big one

 

[BazBall21]

Pietersen has a very good record in India but didn't do much against either of the best two attacks he faced in Asia (SL 2007 and UAE 2012). The 2006-07 Ashes was his best series away from home.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Pietersen has a very good record in India but didn't do much against either of the best two attacks he faced in Asia (SL 2007 and UAE 2012). The 2006-07 Ashes was his best series away from home.

Ajmal was a balant chuker even bradman and richards would have struggled against him yes 2007 vs murali he defo struggled

 

[BazBall21]

Ajmal was a balant chuker even bradman and richards would have struggled against him yes 2007 vs murali he defo struggled

Yeah that was a good England batting lineup and I think the top England run scorer averaged 27! Very tough. Couldn't get going on the first SL tour but got his daddy hundred against Herath in the second. Pietersen usually delivered the goods in a Test (series by series) outside a bad 12-month run between 2009 and 2010.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Yeah that was a good England batting lineup and I think the top England run scorer averaged 27! Very tough. Couldn't get going on the first SL tour but got his daddy hundred against Herath in the second. Pietersen usually delivered the goods in a Test (series by series) outside a bad 12-month run between 2009 and 2010.

Everybody struggled against ajmal thats why i would rate sohaib mallik as better spinner then that chucker who cheated and yes kp was among top 3 test batters between 2008-14 rarely failed be it home or overseas

 

[Fuller Pilch]

yes kp was among top 3 test batters between 2008-14 rarely failed be it home or overseas

No, he wasn't

Chanderpaul, Amla, Clarke, Sanga, and ABDV were all clearly better.

There was also Younis Khan, and late career Tendulkar and Kallis

 

[Johan]

and yes kp was among top 3 test batters between 2008-14 rarely failed be it home or overseas

? No he wasn't, not even close.

Tendulkar was gun until 2011, Kallis was also gun until 2012, ABDV, Sangakkara and Amla were averaging 60 in that timeframe, hell even Cook and Smith were better in that timeframe.

Clarke also.