Ben Stokes vs Kevin Pietersen

[Johan]

His stats aren't amazing at the moment

they're fine, Stokes since 2022 is averaging like 35 with the bat and 32 with the ball, it's subpar for him FOR SURE but with injuries and all into account it's fine, Fat Botham was averaging like 45 with the ball and sub 30 with the bat.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

In the years CDG played, he doesn't.

Yes, he does.

Stokes averaged 35.81 and 31.24 between 17 Nov 2016 & 5 Jun 2022.

De Grandhomme averaged 38.70 and 32.95.

 

[BazBall21]

I think he did well with the ball, especially considering it's his second suit. Some big performances away from home (esp South Africa and the SC) and was always willing to bowl long spells to prize a set batsman out. With the bat, he has been a player of great performances but hasn't achieved as much output as people hoped he would. Very good 2016-2020 peak, which combined with 112 wickets @ 27.

I think Stokes edges KP, but 25-6 feels OTT.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

they're fine, Stokes since 2022 is averaging like 35 with the bat and 32 with the ball, it's subpar for him FOR SURE

??

Those are almost identical to his career averages (35.75 & 32.02).

 

[BazBall21]

Yes, he does.

Stokes averaged 35.81 and 31.24 between 17 Nov 2016 & 5 Jun 2022.

De Grandhomme averaged 38.70 and 32.95.

From 2016 to 2022, their batting averages are completely equal and Stokes has a better hundred rate and less not out padding. With the ball, Stokes took more WPM at a better average. Note that I said years, not exact dates. I don't think some of Stokes' performances in the years specified should be excluded.

 

[Chin Music]

From 2016 to 2022, their batting averages are completely equal and Stokes has a better hundred rate and less not out padding. With the ball, Stokes took more WPM at a better average. Note that I said years, not exact dates. I don't think some of Stokes' performances in the years specified should be excluded.

De Grandhomme very much a downhill skier at home.

 

[Johan]

??

Those are almost identical to his career averages (35.75 & 32.02).

his stats in last 80 or so test are 37-38 with the bat and 29 with the ball even with the disastrous 2021, he is better than his numbers

 

[Thala_0710]

Stokes is ahead by 26-8
What is going on here!!!

 

[Coronis]

Stokes is ahead by 26-8
What is going on here!!!

He saved test cricket

 

[Majestic]

No player can win matches alone, the gulf between England and Australia/India in their home turf in the prior decade or so has frankly been huge, you can't expect him to lead us to victories when the rest of the team simply gets completely rolled.

Stokes last two years hasn't bowled much at all but again, the fact remains that he is an all rounder who can be called upon when the need arises, but with the three pacer and one spinner system actually working he hasn't had the need to bowl too much which is good because he has had knee surgeries, that doesn't change the fact that he is still a pacer good enough to average 29-30 with a 55 strike rate whenever the need be, you add that with him being a clutch batsmen and you got a better cricketer than Pietersen.

I don't know why you're mentioning Dev, as if he wasn't suffering from multiple factors effecting his stats, and as if he wasn't a better bowler than his average suggests, but no, Stokes isn't a Dev level bowler, longetivity, workload and so forth.

and tbh, 36 average isn't that bad in this era, that would be equivalent to 40 probably in 2000s aka the era KP played in, and No he doesn't need to average 50 lol, KP and Cook are not in the same league as Root, don't mention them with him.

Stokes needed to support Root, Pope and other guys to win more test matches in India. He has failed to do so.

KP played much more series defining and memorable knocks in Tests than Stokes. His Wankhede knock on a rank turner was a series defining performance and the kind of knock that even Root hasn't played, let alone Stokes. KP also stood up well to the likes of McGrath, Warne in 2005 series and then Steyn in latter part of his career. He did well vs Murali in Sri Lanka. Stokes simply hasn't had the performances of that calibre with bat or bowl barring 1-2.

Stokes is a good test all rounder but because of 1-2 knocks, you can't say he is a 40 averaging batsman. Where exactly he faced tough batting conditions? He got really good batting conditions in South Africa or Australia. In India also, the 2017 tour had some very good batting wickets while the recent India series had a lot of players scoring runs except for Stokes ofcourse.

 

[GIMH]

Where exactly he faced tough batting conditions?

At home?

 

[Majestic]

At home?

Not exactly. Stokes averages 40 at home while 32 away from home. Root averages 54 with bat at home for reference. Pretty big difference between #1 batsman and #2. England pitches were like that pre-2010 also.

Some of Indian pitches and South African pitches are the ones which were tough from mid-2010s for batsman. But most of them actually were against each other rather than other oppositions.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Not exactly. Stokes averages 40 at home while 32 away from home. Root averages 54 with bat at home for reference. England pitches were like that pre-2010 also.

Some of Indian pitches and South African pitches are the ones which were tough from mid-2010s for batsman. But most of them actually were against each other rather than other oppositions.

No England was very tough to bat in for most of Stokes career (pre Bazball). Root averages 54 because he’s very good.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I’m pretty confident Stokes averages like 40 if he plays from like 2002-2014

 

[Al Salvador]

Stokes needed to support Root, Pope and other guys to win more test matches in India. He has failed to do so.

KP played much more series defining and memorable knocks in Tests than Stokes. His Wankhede knock on a rank turner was a series defining performance and the kind of knock that even Root hasn't played, let alone Stokes. KP also stood up well to the likes of McGrath, Warne in 2005 series and then Steyn in latter part of his career. He did well vs Murali in Sri Lanka. Stokes simply hasn't had the performances of that calibre with bat or bowl barring 1-2.

Stokes is a good test all rounder but because of 1-2 knocks, you can't say he is a 40 averaging batsman. Where exactly he faced tough batting conditions? He got really good batting conditions in South Africa or Australia. In India also, the 2017 tour had some very good batting wickets while the recent India series had a lot of players scoring runs except for Stokes ofcourse.

Cricket is not for you pal if you think he got good conditions in Australia. Has never played in prime in Australia ffs, and was injured in last series with no cricket for 4/5 months. Top 7 avg in matches involving stokes in Australia is 23 which is so low. Justify how he got good conditions, don't hide come and explain.

 

[Majestic]

Cricket is not for you pal if you think he got good conditions in Australia. Has never played in prime in Australia ffs, and was injured in last series with no cricket for 4/5 months. Top 7 avg in matches involving stokes in Australia is 23 which is so low. Justify how he got good conditions, don't hide come and explain.

This is his problem that he didn't played Australia at prime. What are the averages of Australian batsman? Care to mention that as well. Smith scored loads of runs in 2017 Ashes I remember very well. Even in last Ashes, just because England batters can't play well there doesn't make those pitches tougher automatically. Australia got 400+ runs three times in that series. Stokes did nothing with ball either. He has to perform to be rated among elite players. If he doesn't then he stands no chance against KP, who stood up against the very best in the business and influenced the course of the game with his batting time and again. Stokes absolutely is a nothing batsman with an average of 32 with bat away from home and that's his main suit.

 

[Majestic]

No England was very tough to bat in for most of Stokes career (pre Bazball). Root averages 54 because he’s very good.

I’m pretty confident Stokes averages like 40 if he plays from like 2002-2014

Irony this is coming from a guy who considers Root as an inferior batsman to Younis lol

That's just dross. You are just exposing your lack of understanding by demeaning Pietersen because he is a 2000s player and then overhyping Younis who played in the same era and that too on liefeless UAE pattas where there is literally nothing for the pacers.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Irony this is coming from a guy who considers Root as an inferior batsman to Younis lol

That's just dross. You are just exposing your lack of understanding by demeaning Pietersen because he is a 2000s player and then overhyping Younis who played in the same era and that too on liefeless UAE pattas where there is literally nothing for the pacers.

I changed my opinion. Root > Younis (unless Root has a horrible decline and ends up averaging mid 40s)

 

[BazBall21]

17 point winning margin is OTT. I think this is close.

 

[Johan]

Stokes needed to support Root, Pope and other guys to win more test matches in India. He has failed to do so.

KP played much more series defining and memorable knocks in Tests than Stokes. His Wankhede knock on a rank turner was a series defining performance and the kind of knock that even Root hasn't played, let alone Stokes. KP also stood up well to the likes of McGrath, Warne in 2005 series and then Steyn in latter part of his career. He did well vs Murali in Sri Lanka. Stokes simply hasn't had the performances of that calibre with bat or bowl barring 1-2.

Stokes is a good test all rounder but because of 1-2 knocks, you can't say he is a 40 averaging batsman. Where exactly he faced tough batting conditions? He got really good batting conditions in South Africa or Australia. In India also, the 2017 tour had some very good batting wickets while the recent India series had a lot of players scoring runs except for Stokes ofcourse.

other than third test, the india series wasn't particularly close.

135 at Ashes 2019 for one, is a better knock than the Wankhede inning, The Wankhede inning is good but there is nothing crazy about it other than it looking great, Cook and Pietersen both did well that inning and made everyone believe in us winning, but it was Cook who lead England to win in the other three matches and it was his ATG tour. Ashes 2005 is decent and Pietersen did well in the final match with the 158, that I'd give him.

uhm, at home he did great for example? English conditions are hard to bat in and have been for a decade, and I never said he is a 40 averaging Batsmen, but as I said his last 80 or so test have come with battling average of 38 and bowling average of 29, those are better than a 47 averaging batsmen from 2000s, both have memorable performances and are clutch so KP gets no advantage there