Joe Root vs Dravid

[R!TTER]

You can add Pak as well, they're actually worse with their flat pitches at home. Although they're generally competitive in Eng.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Unfortunately for Root he has no more series against WI and SL until 2028. By then he may already be retired if he and his team don't do so well in the Ashes 2025/Ashes 2027. Given his age and the opponents he will face in the coming 3 years and the amount of cricket England plays, I don't think he will finish with a career average over 50.

I also wonder how he will adapt overseas under Bazball. He won’t score that many runs unless he’s willing to score slowly at times like he did in the end of the India series. He’ll be fine against weaker teams at home though.

Most likely will end with an average of under 50 but hopefully I’m wrong since he definitely has the game to end above 50

 

[centurymaker]

Pakistan have been hit and miss over the last 12 years while WI and SL have genuinely been 2nd tier in tests since a long time.

 

[Howe_zat]

Comparing current West Indies to early to mid 2000s Bangladesh is complete nonsense, especially in the bowling.

 

[Howe_zat]

Yea some like Lara and Sanga were able to maintain their performances but some like Ponting and Dravid declined badly after 33 which is why it’s hard to rate players still playing

I kinda agree but the main reason it's hard to rate players who are still playing is the near-sightedness you get. A current player's most recent matches has a disproportionate effect on people's perception of them while is why we're getting some quite lofty comparisons for Root right now in a way that we probably wouldn't this time last summer.

 

[Johan]

How about we remove Sri Lanka and West Indies for Root as both have had weak attacks during Root's entire test career.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Averages 48.5 without WI and SL.
22 tons from 214 innings.
A century every 10 innings.

Meanwhile,
Averages 61 Vs WI and SL
12 tons from 50 innings.
A century every 4 innings.

Windies is a weak team, so is Lanka but they aren't minnows at all, even ban are barely minnows these days.

Root averages >45 against every cricketing nation bar Ban/IR who he has barely played, and Australia who he avarages still 40+ against.

 

[centurymaker]

Comparing current West Indies to early to mid 2000s Bangladesh is complete nonsense, especially in the bowling.

Who is talking about only the "current" West Indies. West Indies bowling has been poor for about 15-20 years. A number of batsmen around the world have massively stat padded against them in the last 2 decades.

Whereas the thing with Bangladesh is that although batsmen have stat padded against them, they only had the opportunity to play 2 match series vs them and that too "away"..As no top nation would invite Bangladesh over to play at home, significantly limiting the stat padding.

So over the last 20 years, top bastmen and bowlers have stat padded much more vs West Indies than they have vs Bangladesh partly due to the sheer number of matches teams play vs weak WI, as opposed to vs weak Bangladesh.

 

[centurymaker]

For eg, Australia/India/England have often played 4 to 6 Tests vs WI every 4 yrs.

Meanwhile the big 3 have often only played about 2 tests vs Bangladesh every 4-6 yrs. (typically away)

 

[Coronis]

For eg, Australia/India/England have often played 4 to 6 Tests vs WI every 4 yrs.

Meanwhile the big 3 have often only played about 2 tests vs Bangladesh every 4-6 yrs.

Doesn’t make them a minnow. Also doesn’t mean matches played against them should be excluded from a player’s career.

 

[centurymaker]

Doesn’t make them a minnow. Also doesn’t mean matches played against them should be excluded from a player’s career.

nothing gets excluded. But matches vs them hold far less weight just like those vs Bangladesh. And so it's necessary to see stats with and without to see a player's output against non-weak opponents.

Nobody is using the word minnow. Only minnows are Afg and Ire. But WI, SL and Ban are 2nd tier weak nations in Test Cricket.

 

[BazBall21]

I don't think WI and SL are bowling minnows. Especially when Root faces WI with the duke and has three hundreds on genuine turners in SL. Bangladesh in Dravid's day were minnows but he played some creditable knocks against Zimbabwe.

 

[Raffski]

If anything, Dravid faced much weaker WI bowling attacks in the 00s.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't think WI and SL are bowling minnows. Especially when Root faces WI with the duke and has three hundreds on genuine turners in SL. Bangladesh in Dravid's day were minnows but he played some creditable knocks against Zimbabwe.

Yeah, the current WI bowling is actually quite good, and Roach and Holder were always potent at home.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yeah, the current WI bowling is actually quite good, and Roach and Holder were always potent at home.

and now they have Shamar Joseph and Jayden Seales who look like they could average mid 20s. Motie looks like a good spinner as well.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I don't think WI and SL are bowling minnows. Especially when Root faces WI with the duke and has three hundreds on genuine turners in SL. Bangladesh in Dravid's day were minnows but he played some creditable knocks against Zimbabwe.

Yea the dukes ball in England in the 2010s could make medium pacers like Philander and Abbas very effective. Root deserves credit for his home record for sure.

 

[sayon basak]

and now they have Shamar Joseph and Jayden Seales who look like they could average mid 20s. Motie looks like a good spinner as well.

That will be really, really hard.

 

[Majestic]

How about we remove Sri Lanka and West Indies for Root as both have had weak attacks during Root's entire test career.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Averages 48.5 without WI and SL.
22 tons from 214 innings.
A century every 10 innings.

Meanwhile,
Averages 61 Vs WI and SL
12 tons from 50 innings.
A century every 4 innings.

You can't do that.WI and SL are better test teams than minnow-ish Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Even today's Bangladesh is better than the Bangladesh that Dravid boosted his stats against. If you have to remove, go and remove Ireland and Afghanistan from Root's stats.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Bangladesh are about to win a series in Pakistan. They’ve got good bowlers, especially at home.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You can't do that.WI and SL are better test teams than minnow-ish Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Even today's Bangladesh is better than the Bangladesh that Dravid boosted his stats against. If you have to remove, go and remove Ireland and Afghanistan from Root's stats.

Afghanistan actually has a somewhat respectable bowling attack. And Ireland are also better than 00s Bangladesh (though 90s Zimbabwe was better than them all, even arguably current SL)

 

[ma1978]

I think Joe Root is an excellent bat, arguably the best of the modern era, but the only way an English cricketer should be judged is how they play in the Ashes and given this, he is an irrelevance