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Joe Root vs Ponting

Joe Root vs Ponting

  • Joe Root

    Votes: 13 36.1%

  • Ponting

    Votes: 23 63.9%
  • Total voters
    36
BazBall21

BazBall21

International Captain
kyear2 said:
I know this makes no difference to some, and pisses off about three, but Ponting damn near scored at a strike rate of 60, and Dravid barely avoided one of 40, not in the 40's, but 40.

Punter was the better batsman and also (though not applicable to this comparison) the better slip.

From watching their respective careers it never appeared close to me. Ponting at one point was being spoken of as being in the discussion of the best since Bradman (and remember who only slightly preceded him), Dravid was never seen as being in that class.
Click to expand...
Root isn't as explosive as Ponting (completely different style - a milker&nudger) but his strike rate isn't much lower.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Slifer said:
No all joking aside I read it as more "batting friendly" for some reason. Must've been because I just got off of an overnight shift. Pardon my mistake. Of course Root has played in more bowler friendly conditions, no doubt about that.
Click to expand...
Root's peak has come primarily in bazball period, which has seen more batter friendly conditions compared to before.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
Burgey said:
Is he?

Ponting was a bad player of one spinner - Harbhajan Singh. He played Murali and most other spinners as well as anyone.
Click to expand...
Root is a bad player of no spinner though. He handled Ashwin, Jadeja and Lyon all valiantly.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Johan said:
Ponting>Sangakkara is a stance I'm 10000000% sure I have but I don't think I would be able to make an argument to statistically justify it, at all.
Click to expand...
I looked up their records in ISENA (I=India) while playing away. It shocked me what I found.

Ricky Ponting:

1725250046985.png

Sangakkara:

1725250035938.png
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Although during early years of Ponting, Pakistan and West Indies were quite formidable.
 
P

PlayerComparisons

International Vice-Captain
Burgey said:
Is he?

Ponting was a bad player of one spinner - Harbhajan Singh. He played Murali and most other spinners as well as anyone.
Click to expand...
I think he did have problems on spinning pitches but it’s not really a big deal since he barely played on them. He was comfortably better against pace though which is probably more important.
 
R

R!TTER

State Regular
Spark said:
I would be extremely curious to hear the reasoning because that statement seems so obviously true that it borders on tautological.
Click to expand...
Because his numbers not from a position of strength, or batting first, are kinda abysmal, so no it's not just a matter of fact -
Opposition team Australia or England or India or South Africa
Home or away away (home of opposition)
Start of match date greater than or equal to 31 Jan 2010
Innings in match 2nd innings or 3rd innings or 4th innings
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Overall figures
PlayerSpanMatInnsNORunsHSAveDescendingBFSR1005004s6s
AN Cook (ENG)2010-2018284032229244*60.24465447.898612464
HM Amla (SA)2010-2017172421300311*59.09272547.704211544
V Kohli (IND)2011-202436490231816947.30418755.369752716
KS Williamson (NZ)2010-202226392140416637.94295447.524621691
JE Root (ENG)2012-202436504174211037.86355648.9811511964
AD Mathews (SL)2011-202421340120316035.38245149.0836014610
CA Pujara (IND)2010-202234462152915334.75396938.5221142020
AM Rahane (IND)2013-202231423130814733.53257250.852941478
SPD Smith (AUS)2013-202334433129614232.40233955.402711557
Azhar Ali (PAK)2010-2020233731069141*31.44264340.442531352
DA Warner (AUS)2013-202333410128314531.29192566.6428216514
LRPL Taylor (NZ)2010-202126423121329031.10204859.221761554
KC Brathwaite (WI)2011-202425400120213430.05246948.683541444
FDM Karunaratne (SL)2012-202424401104610726.82200852.092531431
BA Stokes (ENG)2013-202430421108912026.56205253.0715014415

Take Root's awesome record in India for instance -
Primary team England
Opposition team India
Home or away away (home of opposition)
Start of match date greater than or equal to 10 Feb 2021
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Overall figures
PlayerSpanMatInnsNORunsHSAveDescendingBFSR1005004s6s
BM Duckett2024-2024510034315334.3040085.75100542
Z Crawley2021-202471404747933.8572565.37052656
JE Root2021-20248161430122*28.6691646.94110421
OJ Pope2021-2024816040619625.3770657.50102422
BA Stokes2021-202481603137019.5664048.90021306
JM Bairstow2021-202471402663919.0036972.08004346
BT Foakes2021-202481612834718.8678136.23000232

After his double on an absolute belter in Chennai he's only slightly better than Pope & he's batted first 5(6?) times in those games. It was quite appalling in fact seeing him bat when the ball spun in 2021 series, he got out on sweeps regularly & generally didn't pick the right balls to play shots or even lengths at times. Granted he did throw away his wickets in 2024 due to "Bassball" but you'd expect better from him. Maybe it's a mental block against the spinning ball as we've seen even with India/Asian players these days?
ankitj said:
I looked up their records in ISENA (I=India) while playing away. It shocked me what I found.
Click to expand...
Talking about away records these guys play in IPL(India) more than probably any other domestic competition so any allegations about foreign conditions are laughable at best! India on the other hand has that distinct disadvantage, albeit of their own making, by not allowing players to have (T20?) games away. In general however the conditions aren't as alien as they used to be when we had away tours every 5-6 years or so to a particular nation.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
R!TTER said:
Because his numbers not from a position of strength, or batting first, are kinda abysmal, so no it's not just a matter of fact -
Opposition team Australia or England or India or South Africa
Home or away away (home of opposition)
Start of match date greater than or equal to 31 Jan 2010
Innings in match 2nd innings or 3rd innings or 4th innings
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Overall figures
PlayerSpanMatInnsNORunsHSAveDescendingBFSR1005004s6s
AN Cook (ENG)2010-2018284032229244*60.24465447.898612464
HM Amla (SA)2010-2017172421300311*59.09272547.704211544
V Kohli (IND)2011-202436490231816947.30418755.369752716
KS Williamson (NZ)2010-202226392140416637.94295447.524621691
JE Root (ENG)2012-202436504174211037.86355648.9811511964
AD Mathews (SL)2011-202421340120316035.38245149.0836014610
CA Pujara (IND)2010-202234462152915334.75396938.5221142020
AM Rahane (IND)2013-202231423130814733.53257250.852941478
SPD Smith (AUS)2013-202334433129614232.40233955.402711557
Azhar Ali (PAK)2010-2020233731069141*31.44264340.442531352
DA Warner (AUS)2013-202333410128314531.29192566.6428216514
LRPL Taylor (NZ)2010-202126423121329031.10204859.221761554
KC Brathwaite (WI)2011-202425400120213430.05246948.683541444
FDM Karunaratne (SL)2012-202424401104610726.82200852.092531431
BA Stokes (ENG)2013-202430421108912026.56205253.0715014415

Take Root's awesome record in India for instance -
Primary team England
Opposition team India
Home or away away (home of opposition)
Start of match date greater than or equal to 10 Feb 2021
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Overall figures
PlayerSpanMatInnsNORunsHSAveDescendingBFSR1005004s6s
BM Duckett2024-2024510034315334.3040085.75100542
Z Crawley2021-202471404747933.8572565.37052656
JE Root2021-20248161430122*28.6691646.94110421
OJ Pope2021-2024816040619625.3770657.50102422
BA Stokes2021-202481603137019.5664048.90021306
JM Bairstow2021-202471402663919.0036972.08004346
BT Foakes2021-202481612834718.8678136.23000232

After his double on an absolute belter in Chennai he's only slightly better than Pope & he's batted first 5(6?) times in those games. It was quite appalling in fact seeing him bat when the ball spun in 2021 series, he got out on sweeps regularly & generally didn't pick the right balls to play shots or even lengths at times. Granted he did throw away his wickets in 2024 due to "Bassball" but you'd expect better from him. Maybe it's a mental block against the spinning ball as we've seen even with India/Asian players these days?
Talking about away records these guys play in IPL(India) more than probably any other domestic competition so any allegations about foreign conditions are laughable at best! India on the other hand has that distinct disadvantage, albeit of their own making, by not allowing players to have (T20?) games away. In general however the conditions aren't as alien as they used to be when we had away tours every 5-6 years or so to a particular nation.
Click to expand...
How does this wall of text prove that Root has played in easier batting conditions than the early-to-mid 2000s, which is was the original contention that was the result of accidental misreading of a post in the first place?

Also the idea that IPL, a T20 competition played on the roadiest roads to ever road these days, is in any way preparation for an era of consistently exceptionally bowler friendly pitches is manifestly absurd.
 
R

R!TTER

State Regular
Your point would've made more sense if it wasn't Root we're talking about. In his career playing in India, he's played on 8-10 absolute roads, starting with Nagpur 2012, more than SS/KW/AB or any other top batter! In fact, he's batted first on more "roads" than Indians in the games they've played together!

Spark said:
Also, the idea that IPL, a T20 competition played on the roadiest roads to ever road these days, is in any way preparation for an era of consistently exceptionally bowler-friendly pitches is manifestly absurd.
Click to expand...
So you think they only play on IPL roads? There's no spinning tracks in IPL, or that they don't practice on such wickets on off days? The fact is, batting in India is much less alien than it's ever been; Ponting & Co, you could argue, didn't have that luxury back in the day. The only point, for me, that makes it much worse these days is DRS.

The general point about pitches for away teams is slightly odd because most teams are trying to negate the opposition's bowling. Like Eng had spinning tracks when SA toured with Philander, they had seaming decks when we toured a year(?) later. NZ prepared spinning tracks for Oz last time, flat/green tracks vs. Asian teams! We provide flat/spinning decks for SA/Oz/NZ/Eng and sometimes seaming decks vs. SL and Bangla tigers. Oz well, they're just flat.
 
Last edited:
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
R!TTER said:
Your point would've made more sense if it wasn't Root we're talking about. In his career playing in India, he's played on 8-10 absolute roads, starting with Nagpur 2012, more than SS/KW/AB or any other top batter! In fact, he's batted first on more "roads" than Indians in the games they've played together!
Click to expand...
I don't know if you've noticed this, it might be a shock to you, but cricket is played outside of India too.

So you think they only play on IPL roads? There's no spinning tracks in IPL, or that they don't practice on such wickets on off days? The fact is, batting in India is much less alien than it's ever been; Ponting & Co, you could argue, didn't have that luxury back in the day. The only point, for me, that makes it much worse these days is DRS.
Click to expand...
Name me a single IPL match that had anywhere near as much turn or variable bounce as a standard modern Indian Test pitch, say 2nd Test Chennai in 2021. "Was slightly more than gunbarrel straight" doesn't count. This contention is farcical.

It should be very obvious to anyone with a lick of sense that limited overs, and especially T20, pitches should not be compared directly to Test pitches and the former does not prepare you at all for bowling friendly conditions in the latter, because the nature of limited overs batting means that the impact of any assistance is massively exaggerated compared to Test batting where there's much less pressure to score on every ball. This is one of the most obvious, basic things about the differences between the formats and really I had no idea needed to be explained.
 
R

R!TTER

State Regular
Spark said:
Name me a single IPL match that had anywhere near as much turn or variable bounce as a standard modern Indian Test pitch, say 2nd Test Chennai in 2021. "Was slightly more than gunbarrel straight" doesn't count. This contention is farcical.
Click to expand...
On a track where Ashwin scored a hundred in the third innings? Me thinks it's a skill issue 8-)
 
R

R!TTER

State Regular
It wasn't an easy pitch for sure but it wasn't diabolically bad. The third test was worse though, in part because of the pink ball farce.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
R!TTER said:
It wasn't an easy pitch for sure but it wasn't diabolically bad. The third test was worse though, in part because of the pink ball farce.
Click to expand...
Yes. It was not an easy pitch for a Test match pitch. This immediately makes it dramatically more bowler friendly than 99% of all limited overs pitches.
 
Howe_zat

Howe_zat

Audio File
R!TTER said:
Opposition team Australia or England or India or South Africa
Home or away away (home of opposition)
Start of match date greater than or equal to 31 Jan 2010
Innings in match 2nd innings or 3rd innings or 4th innings
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Overall figures
PlayerSpanMatInnsNORunsHSAveDescendingBFSR1005004s6s
AN Cook (ENG)2010-2018284032229244*60.24465447.898612464
HM Amla (SA)2010-2017172421300311*59.09272547.704211544
V Kohli (IND)2011-202436490231816947.30418755.369752716
KS Williamson (NZ)2010-202226392140416637.94295447.524621691
JE Root (ENG)2012-202436504174211037.86355648.9811511964
AD Mathews (SL)2011-202421340120316035.38245149.0836014610
CA Pujara (IND)2010-202234462152915334.75396938.5221142020
AM Rahane (IND)2013-202231423130814733.53257250.852941478
SPD Smith (AUS)2013-202334433129614232.40233955.402711557
Azhar Ali (PAK)2010-2020233731069141*31.44264340.442531352
DA Warner (AUS)2013-202333410128314531.29192566.6428216514
LRPL Taylor (NZ)2010-202126423121329031.10204859.221761554
KC Brathwaite (WI)2011-202425400120213430.05246948.683541444
FDM Karunaratne (SL)2012-202424401104610726.82200852.092531431
BA Stokes (ENG)2013-202430421108912026.56205253.0715014415
Click to expand...
It's really quite praising that when applying half a dozen filters with the specific intention of making Root look bad he's ended up 5th in the world and well ahead of several other world class players.

As for the bit about 'when you start the data after his matchwinning 200 and only look at the matches where the whole team collapsed over and over again, he only got one hundred and some of the others averaged slightly more', that's honestly the weakest bit of criticism I think I've ever seen
 
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