Ian Botham vs Keith Miller

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Peak Botham made cricket look so easy. Took a 6fer to dismantle a good Indian lineup at home, saved England with the bat with a counterattacking knock, and then causally ran through India once again. Possibly the greatest performance in a match

 

[capt_Luffy]

Overall Peak Imran and Peak Botham very close. Imran as a bowler overall is better than Botham as an AR.

Overall, Imran bowler is better. But I recently get the feeling Peak Botham gets a little overrated for winning/drawing a fair few matches in great style, that lets people to ignore some mediocrity. A peak batting average of 45 doesn't reeks consistency and even at his bowling peak, the general idea was he wasn't bowling as good as his numbers.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Overall, Imran bowler is better. But I recently get the feeling Peak Botham gets a little overrated for winning/drawing a fair few matches in style, that lets people to ignore some mediocrity. A peak batting average of 45 doesn't reeks consistency and even at his bowling peak, the general idea was he wasn't bowling as good as his numbers.

Yep that average indicates he was a very good bat at the time, better than peak Imran. A batting average of 45 at a good SR is better than a bowling average of 27. 125 wickets in 22 matches @18, with 12 fifers in 22 matches is amazing

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Plus great record across conditions at peak

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Here

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yep that average indicates he was a very good bat at the time, better than peak Imran. A batting average of 45 at a good SR is better than a bowling average of 27. 125 wickets in 22 matches @18, with 12 fifers in 22 matches is amazing

Botham was a better bat than Peak Imran, but even at his peak, he wasn't particularly very consistent with the bat. Sure, game changing runs and 5 centuries/10fers together, those are great but personally not nearly as impressive as being arguably the best bowler ever AND averaging close to 50, not outs be damned.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Botham was a better bat than Peak Imran, but even at his peak, he wasn't particularly very consistent with the bat. Sure, game changing runs and 5 centuries/10fers together, those are great but personally not nearly as impressive as being arguably the best bowler ever AND averaging close to 50, not outs be damned.

As a bowler Botham had an ATG peak, although Imran’s clearly better. But as a bat clearly better, plus the matchwinning factor. As I said personally not sure as to whom was better, but Botham was a more balanced allrounder during his peak.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Botham was a better bat than Peak Imran, but even at his peak, he wasn't particularly very consistent with the bat. Sure, game changing runs and 5 centuries/10fers together, those are great but personally not nearly as impressive as being arguably the best bowler ever AND averaging close to 50, not outs be damned.

Also a genuine question, didn’t you also say peak Botham was the best cricketer after Don?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Also a genuine question, didn’t you also say peak Botham was the best cricketer after Don?

Yeah, and then I checked back on him and came to the conclusion that peak Imran was clearly better. Not nearly as many impactful runs hence less on the balance but a much much much superior bowler.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Yeah, and then I checked back on him and came to the conclusion that peak Imran was clearly better. Not nearly as many impactful runs hence less on the balance but a much much much superior bowler.

I mean Botham had a WPM greater than 5, good record across conditions, and average of 18. Wouldn’t peak Imran was far superior as a bowler

 

[capt_Luffy]

I mean Botham had a WPM greater than 5, good record across conditions, and average of 18. Wouldn’t peak Imran was far superior as a bowler

Peak Imran had an average of 14 and was probably the best bowler ever. Peer rating of Botham the bowler wasn't that high even in his own time and many felt his numbers highly flattered him.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Peak Imran had an average of 14 and was probably the best bowler ever. Peer rating of Botham the bowler wasn't that high even in his own time and many felt his numbers highly flattered him.

I grant you that first two points. Whether Botham’s number flatter him, not sure. Anyways you make a convincing case. But still feel Botham was more balanced in his peak, peak Imran the better cricketer tho

 

[capt_Luffy]

I grant you that first two points. Whether Botham’s number flatter him, not sure. Anyways you make a convincing case. But still feel Botham was more balanced in his peak, peak Imran the better cricketer tho

I mean, I also said that Botham was more balanced at Peak and was definitely a much better batsman, capable of winning/drawing games. But the Imran bowling boost is too strong imo.

 

[Coronis]

Peak Imran had an average of 14 and was probably the best bowler ever. Peer rating of Botham the bowler wasn't that high even in his own time and many felt his numbers highly flattered him.

lol. You’re talking about numbers flattering Botham when Imran’s batting is also in the conversation. Crazy.

Here

Dude charge your phone, you’re giving me anxiety.

 

[capt_Luffy]

lol. You’re talking about numbers flattering Botham when Imran’s batting is also in the conversation. Crazy.

I mean, I explicitly stated that Botham was Much better bat than Imran at their respective primes, even averaging slightly less; didn't I?? Only going by numbers just makes it easier for Imran really.

 

[Migara]

Peak Botham averaged 18ish with the ball and 45 with the bat with 6 100s. Imran 15ish with the ball and 47 with the bat, but only one 100. Plus Botham during his peak had a 100 and a fifer in same the match 4 times, more than any player has had during his entire career. That makes it close

Performance against WI makes the cut. Imran was always excellent against the best team at least with the ball. Botham was with neither.

And it is many times difficult to average 15 than 18 compared to averaging with the bat 47 and 50.

 

[Migara]

As a bowler Botham had an ATG peak, although Imran’s clearly better. But as a bat clearly better, plus the matchwinning factor. As I said personally not sure as to whom was better, but Botham was a more balanced allrounder during his peak.

We are comparing ATG peak against the best bowling peak of cricket history (Murali may disagree). It is not a great peak vs great peak. this is like comparing Alec Stewart to Sachin Tendulkar.

 

[Migara]

Here

Nothing against WI. Where as for Imran, it includes multiple tours.

 

[ma1978]

We are talking about Botham vs the highly overrated Keith Miller who’s primary quality was that he was “balanced” but neither a consistent match winner with bat or ball

 

[sayon basak]

Ian Botham, appreciating how good he could be, was simply overrated in his peak.

Imran Khan maintained a batting average of 53 and bowling average of 19 from 1982 to 1991 (9 years!)



On the other hand, Ian Botham only had one year (1982) where he had an average close to 50 (49.77). And also had an inferior bowling average to Imran.


Botham is particularly rated high because of performances causing in draws or wins. But as others have mentioned before, consistency is the main issue with Botham' peak.
So peak Botham<peak Imran.