The Great Allrounders in County Cricket

[shortpitched713]

Aren't they all (the star names) pretty lazy until the playoffs? Regular season feels like a shooting exhibition sometimes.

Nah, Tim Duncan (somewhat jokingly perhaps) complained Horry doesn't show up until the playoff moments.

And although regular season can feel like that sometimes, I think there is overall value placed on it is adequate, because you need to win those games to even get in the playoffs.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Or does it?

"Intense VSauce bgm plays"

 

[Yeoman]

Greig is such a strange case. Looking at the CC stats, you're looking at a very serviceable, but not spectacular bowling all-rounder.

His performance in Tests and watching any amount of his play at that level paints a picture of a supremely assured player. He oozed natural talent, with the bat in particular.

My impression is of a man who undeniably was one for a big moment, but conversly simply couldn't get it up for a standard FC match and needed the occasion and pomp of a Test match and high leverage situations within them to perform his best. It's a wholly unprofessional mindset mind you, but you do see it from time to time in across high level athletes. Robert Horry comes to mind, as an analogy for @Coronis and my fellow NBA fans.

Perhaps the opposite of this is the answer to the Hadlee question. A couple of accounts that I read of him lauded the rigour of his preparation and planning for all matches - the antithesis of the ‘big game player’

 

[howitzer]

Perhaps the opposite of this is the answer to the Hadlee question. A couple of accounts that I read of him lauded the rigour of his preparation and planning for all matches - the antithesis of the ‘big game player’

@TheJediBrah @Prince EWS

 

[Hungry Llama]

Not in the same league as the ones mentioned, but there was also John Shepherd who played on in his 40s for Gloucs [after he left Kent] until 1987. Dunno his CC figs but FC 13000+ runs at 26 and 1157 wkts at 27.

The other 1 i remember was another windian, Franklyn Stephenson who was a exciting batter and quick bowler, would have been a huge star now, but unwisely went on 2 rebel tours of RSA and was banned. He starred at first for gloucs and when the ban was lifted replaced hadlee/rice at notts, a tall order but did the double in his first season, i think the last to do so.

 

[peterhrt]

Not in the same league as the ones mentioned, but there was also John Shepherd who played on in his 40s for Gloucs [after he left Kent] until 1987. Dunno his CC figs but FC 13000+ runs at 26 and 1157 wkts at 27.

The other 1 i remember was another windian, Franklyn Stephenson who was a exciting batter and quick bowler, would have been a huge star now, but unwisely went on 2 rebel tours of RSA and was banned. He starred at first for gloucs and when the ban was lifted replaced hadlee/rice at notts, a tall order but did the double in his first season, i think the last to do so.

John Shepherd: 374 matches 1966-87
11907 runs @ 27.81. 10 centuries
1036 wickets @ 27.54. 256 ct.

Franklyn Stephenson: 153 matches 1982-95
5568 runs @ 26.64. 6 centuries
568 wickets @ 24.81. 59 ct.

Another West Indian from long ago:

Sydney Smith: 119 matches 1907-14
6396 runs @ 32.46. 12 centuries
502 wickets @ 17.41. 86 ct.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

Hadlee was given a benefit season by Notts in 1986 but he didn't want to just take the money and run: he felt he owed them one more season, 1987, which turned out to be his greatest for them. He topped the bowling averages, came third in the batting averages, and had the best all-round statistics in English first-class cricket since 1864 (according to the Notts website):

from https://www.trentbridge.co.uk/trentbridge/history/players/sir-richard-hadlee.html:



There were bowlers that year who had better averages than Hadlee but they took just 1 or 2 or 3 wickets so I think they were rightly disregarded:

from https://stats.acscricket.com/Archive/Seasons/Seasonal_Averages/ENG/1987_f_Bowling_by_Average.html:



I think Hadlee came third in the batting averages for **county batsmen scoring at least 1000 runs**:

from https://stats.acscricket.com/Archive/Seasons/Seasonal_Averages/ENG/1987_f_Batting_by_Average.html:



It's nice to see Martin Crowe in the #1 position under **my proposed criteria**!

In 1987 Notts won the County Championship for the second time during Hadlee's tenure with them, the first being 1981 (when Hadlee took 105 wickets at 14.89). The 1981 win was huge because Notts hadn't won since 1929 (the days of Larwood and Voce). 1987 also saw Notts win the NatWest Trophy by beating Northamptonshire in the final with the Player of the Match being ... Richard Hadlee (!) but he won the award by virtue of his performance with the bat (70 off 61 deliveries):

I enjoyed Hadlee's Boss move off the penultimate ball when after he hit it, instead of running, he just turned and raised his arms, knowing that he had hit a six! Hadlee wasn't an alpha male like Viv Richards (who is?) but he certainly had some alpha in him (like most champions). Richards probably had too much alpha which cost him statistically. I suspect he was more concerned with utterly dominating the bowlers than with actually winning. For Richards, maybe domination WAS winning.

Hadlee won the PCA (Professional Cricketers' Association) Men's Player of the Year Award in 1987. This made it three such wins for Hadlee (unprecedented, equalled by Marcus Trescothick in 2011) after wins in 1981 and 1984. According to Wikipedia, these three years were Hadlee's only full seasons with Notts so each time he had a full season, he won Men's Player of the Year. In 1984 he did the double for the first time since Fred Titmus in 1967 and was just three wickets shy of doing it again in 1987. As Hungry Llama has pointed out, Franklyn Stephenson also did the double in 1988 but nobody has done it since.

 

[capt_Luffy]

John Shepherd: 374 matches 1966-87
11907 runs @ 27.81. 10 centuries
1036 wickets @ 27.54. 256 ct.

Franklyn Stephenson: 153 matches 1982-95
5568 runs @ 26.64. 6 centuries
568 wickets @ 24.81. 59 ct.

Another West Indian from long ago:

Sydney Smith: 119 matches 1907-14
6396 runs @ 32.46. 12 centuries
502 wickets @ 17.41. 86 ct.

Hey Peterhrt, can you please give the County stats of the Indian trio and Underwood.

 

[Immenso]

Averaging 16.5 vs 18 is exceptionally difficult than averaging 20 vs 21.5. Doing it in tests is even difficult. I am not sure what you are getting at.

why are you burping on about 'difficultly' in a discussion about a strange outlying variation amongst peers?

 

[Immenso]

Didn't realuse Greig had such modest FC stats. Feels bit like a Darryl Mitchell type scenario. Came into international when mature and bailed it.

 

[Immenso]

Botham v the overseas pros has the disadvantage of having the dirge at the tail end of hiss career included in his syats.

Although. For Beefy that is about his final decade ...

 

[peterhrt]

Hey Peterhrt, can you please give the County stats of the Indian trio and Underwood.

Bedi: 110 matches 1972-77
434 wickets @ 20.89

Venkat: 46 matches 1973-75
171 wickets @ 27.87

Underwood: 520 matches 1963-87
1951 wickets @ 19.21

Gibbs: 109 matches 1967-73
338 wickets @ 24.50

Intikhab: 232 matches 1969-81
629 wickets @ 30.00

Mushtaq Mohammad: 262 matches 1964-77
551 wickets @ 24.00

Prasanna and Chandra didn't play county cricket.

 

[Coronis]

Botham v the overseas pros has the disadvantage of having the dirge at the tail end of hiss career included in his syats.

Although. For Beefy that is about his final decade ...

iirc his county stats during his peak weren’t that comparable to his run in tests at that time. I’ll have to check.

 

[Starfighter]

The fact that the best of all - Bill Alley - hasn't been mentioned is shameful.

Good to see John Shepherd get a shoutout though.

 

[Migara]

Bedi: 110 matches 1972-77
434 wickets @ 20.89

Venkat: 46 matches 1973-75
171 wickets @ 27.87

Underwood: 520 matches 1963-87
1951 wickets @ 19.21

Gibbs: 109 matches 1967-73
338 wickets @ 24.50

Intikhab: 232 matches 1969-81
629 wickets @ 30.00

Mushtaq Mohammad: 262 matches 1964-77
551 wickets @ 24.00

Prasanna and Chandra didn't play county cricket.

So much so for the "Not so poor" county batsmen. Against "Test" quality England

Gibbs 26.1
Bedi 38.1
Venkat 41.5
Mushtaq 31.9
Inthikab 49.7

OK, tell me those county sides were better than England test side on English soil with batting . . .

 

[capt_Luffy]

So much so for the "Not so poor" county batsmen. Against "Test" quality England

Gibbs 26.1
Bedi 38.1
Venkat 41.5
Mushtaq 31.9
Inthikab 49.7

OK, tell me those county sides were better than England test side on English soil with batting . . .

On fully covered Test pitches though. The County ones were only partially covered.

 

[Ali TT]

So we all know the big four AR’s of the 80’s. All did play county and I’m also adding in the records of Procter and Rice, just for some comparison. (unfortunately the sites don’t have no. of innings bowled)

Procter (68-81)
259 matches 437 innings 14441 @ 36.19 32 tons 70 fifties 209 catches
259 matches 833 @ 19.56 SR 45.95 42 5’fers 5 10’fers

Imran (71-88)
173 matches 279 innings 8847 @ 38.30 17 tons 51 fifties 51 catches
173 matches 537 @ 21.08 SR 47.92 27 5’fers 2 10’fers

Hadlee (73-87)
148 matches 196 innings 5854 @ 38.76 11 tons 29 fifties 105 catches
148 matches 622 @ 14.51 SR 40.15 38 5’fers 5 10’fers

Rice (73-87)
283 matches 450 innings 17053 @ 44.29 37 tons 85 innings 268 catches
283 matches 476 @ 23.58 SR 54.53 12 5’fers 0 10’fers

Botham (74-93)
251 matches 379 innings 11904 @ 35.32 22 tons 60 fifties 184 catches
251 matches 659 @ 27.22 SR 53.16 28 5’fers 3 10’fers

Kapil (81-85)
24 matches 40 innings 1456 @ 42.82 1 ton 11 fifties 21 catches
24 matches 72 @ 22.55 SR 50.11 2 5’fers 0 10’fers

Draw what conclusions from this you will.

No Darren Stevens seriously brings into question the credibility of this analysis, sorry.

 

[peterhrt]

The fact that the best of all - Bill Alley - hasn't been mentioned is shameful.

Bill Alley: 350 matches 1957-68
16644 runs @ 30.48. 24 centuries
738 wickets @ 22.03. 267 ct.

Bruce Dooland: 140 matches 1953-57
4782 runs @ 24.52. 1 century
770 wickets @ 18.85. 117 ct.

Vic Jackson: 322 matches 1938-56
14379 runs @ 28.52. 21 centuries
930 wickets @ 24.15. 242 ct.

Colin McCool: 138 matches 1956-60
7913 runs @ 33.81. 12 centuries
219 wickets @ 28.05. 138 ct + 1 st.

George Tribe: 233 matches 1951-59
8141 runs @ 28.16. 6 centuries
1021 wickets @ 20.25. 181 ct.

Albert Trott: 223 matches 1898-1910
6253 runs @ 20.23. 6 centuries
946 wickets @ 21.49. 253 ct.

Sammy Woods: 299 matches 1891-1910
12637 runs @ 25.07. 18 centuries
556 wickets @ 24.05. 204 ct.

 

[reyrey]

On fully covered Test pitches though. The County ones were only partially covered.

Not only that, Counties would try bring in quality overseas spinners if their home pitches were likely to be more spin friendly.

@Migara can't stop embarrassing himself in this thread. Starting to feel bad for the guy.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

Not only that, Countys would try bring in quality overseas spinners if their home pitches were likely to be more spin friendly.

@Migara can't stop embarrassing himself in this thread. Starting to feel bad for the guy.

This just absolutely cracked me up!