Ravichandran Ashwin vs Hedley Verity

[subshakerz]

You haven't said that at all. Please don't lie.

I've said it several times in the past few months/year.

I don't think Ashwin isn't capable of such performances, but for whatever reason he has missed out or has been unlucky.

Ashwin in the first half of his career genuinely struggled as an overseas bowler. However, he did improve as he went on, adding more skills and use of bounce and angles from the crease, and this coincided with India becoming a better team. He was decent overall in England and good in Australia towards the end. And it is fair to say that the team management should have showed him more faith in some of these tours. He was also unlucky that several of his better performances coincided with India losing too.

While he still struggled in places like SA and in certain key match situations when he should have run through a team away from India, overall it is also fair to say that more confidence in him as was the case with other champion spinners could have yielded better results.

 

[Xix2565]

I've said it several times in the past few months/year.

Okay, so you have said that to use as a stick against Ashwin. Great news, but I'm still waiting to hear about Verity.

 

[subshakerz]

Nah him being a biased drivelling idiot who hates Indian cricket is not an issue at all. It is only an issue when every bloody thread becomes all about it all the bloody time.

This one is on ankit and Houe though, they yelled his name enough times.

You're still on about that supposed feud?

 

[subshakerz]

Okay, so you have said that to use as a stick against Ashwin.

Huh? First you say I'm a liar then you say it's a point against Ashwin. Maybe you don't know my views as well as you thought.

 

[Xix2565]

Huh? First you say I'm a liar then you say it's a point against Ashwin. Maybe you don't know my views as well as you thought.

It's hard to figure out the views of someone who dodges points and uses bad faith to evaluate players.

 

[ataraxia]

Still waiting to see anything about Hedley Verity though. Is this supposed to be a sign that he's not a great spinner?

No, he averaged 14. It's just that for some strange reason anyone who actually knows a thing about him has long since stopped contributing to this subbie (for which I blame Ashwin)

 

[Xix2565]

I seem to have his Test figures as 144 wickets @24.37/77.5 though, in 40 Tests. Doesn't seem that great in this comparison.

 

[ataraxia]

As you know test record is not the be-all and end-all until we get into post-WSC times, especially w.r.t. county players, magnified in the Bradman era.

 

[h_hurricane]

Quick @kyear2 now subz is being inconsistent. I know you care more about pacers than spinners, but go get him.

Please not nudge them to turn a 10 page thread into a 100 page thread. Both their employers are ok with them spending all their time in the forum you know.

 

[sayon basak]

I seem to have his Test figures as 144 wickets @24.37/77.5 though, in 40 Tests. Doesn't seem that great in this comparison.

FC should be counted for players like Verity.

 

[capt_Luffy]

FC should be counted for players like Verity.

Definitely, but with an asterisk.

 

[shortpitched713]

Kallis confirmed greatest matchwinner by @capt_Luffy

He is in Jamee's Sim, for sure.

 

[shortpitched713]

FC should be counted for players like Verity.

I disagree.

It's a point of context, but not necessarily something to take in lieu of a more substantial Test record (within the standards of the time). We know that some players simply over or underperform in comparison to FC record due to it being a different level.

40 Tests is enough to give some sort of judgement, but I think just because it isn't that impressive in comparison to Ashwin doesn't mean we should sweep it aside.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Definitely, but with an asterisk.

Yeah but would've been a factor. I'm sure Test sides from this prehistoric era were picked based at least partially, and independent of talent, on who could afford extended time off from coal-mining, stevedoring, and bushwhacking duties, so the step-up from FC to Test might've been smaller than what we've rightly expected it to be ever since.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah but would've been a factor. I'm sure Test sides from this prehistoric era were picked based at least partially, and independent of talent, on who could afford extended time off from coal-mining, stevedoring, and bushwhacking duties, so the step-up from FC to Test might've been smaller than what we've rightly expected it to be ever since.

Forgot the mammoth hunting and cave painting.....

 

[Shri]

Forgot the mammoth hunting and cave painting.....

glenn mcgrath truly an old soul

 

[ankitj]

Look at #16 and #18 you losers.

Okay, here is a breakdown of the points.

1 M Muralitharan 2 SF Barnes 3 Sir RJ Hadlee 4 DW Steyn 5 SK Warne 6 GD McGrath 7 MD Marshall 8 Imran Khan 9 DK Lillee 10 Waqar Younis 11 AA Donald 12 CEL Ambrose 13 WJ O'Reilly 14 FS Trueman 15 CV Grimmett 16 R Ashwin 17 K Rabada 18 JM Anderson 19 A Kumble 20 Wasim Akram 21 SM Pollock 22 J Garner 23 AK Davidson 24 CA Walsh 25 HMRKB Herath 26 VD Philander 27 JC Laker 28 Shoaib Akhtar 29 MA Holding 30 RA Jadeja 31 AV Bedser 32 HJ Tayfield 33 IT Botham 34 RJ Harris 35 GA Lohmann 36 Fazal Mahmood 37 M Ntini 38 MG Johnson 39 RGD Willis 40 Mohammad Asif 41 RR Lindwall 42 JA Snow 43 PM Pollock 44 AME Roberts 45 IR Bishop 46 CEH Croft 47 D Gough 48 DL Underwood 49 Yasir Shah 50 WW Hall 51 SCJ Broad 52 BS Chandrasekhar 53 N Kapil Dev 54 CJ McDermott 55 AR Caddick 56 JR Thomson 57 ARC Fraser 58 H Trumble 59 M Morkel 60 Harbhajan Singh 61 GP Swann 62 NAT Adcock 63 LR Gibbs 64 Mohammad Abbas 65 Saeed Ajmal 66 R Benaud 67 CTB Turner 68 MA Starc 69 JH Wardle 70 TM Alderman 71 JB Statham 72 GD McKenzie 73 SR Clark 74 JN Gillespie 75 MW Tate 76 FH Tyson 77 KR Miller 78 B Lee 79 MG Hughes 80 SCG MacGill 81 GF Lawson 82 Saqlain Mushtaq 83 BS Bedi 84 CL Cairns 85 TA Boult 86 JR Hazlewood 87 HH Streak 88 MJ Hoggard 89 WA Johnston 90 Z Khan 91 H Verity 92 N Wagner 93 SE Bond 94 WPUJC Vaas 95 PM Siddle 96 BA Reid 97 NM Lyon 98 GAR Lock 99 EAS Prasanna 100 Danish Kaneria

Start 1992 1901 1973 2004 1992 1993 1978 1971 1971 1989 1992 1988 1932 1952 1925 2011 2015 2003 1990 1985 1995 1977 1953 1984 1999 2011 1948 1997 1975 2012 1946 1949 1977 2010 1886 1952 1998 2007 1971 2005 1946 1965 1961 1974 1989 1977 1994 1966 2014 1958 2007 1964 1978 1984 1993 1972 1989 1890 2006 1998 2008 1953 1958 2017 2009 1952 1887 2011 1948 1981 1951 1961 2006 1996 1924 1954 1946 1999 1985 1998 1980 1995 1966 1989 2011 2014 1993 2000 1947 2000 1931 2012 2001 1994 2008 1985 2011 1952 1962 2000

End 2010 1914 1990 2018 2007 2007 1991 1992 1984 2003 2002 2000 1946 1965 1936 2018 2018 2018 2008 2002 2008 1987 1963 2001 2018 2018 1959 2007 1987 2018 1955 1960 1992 2015 1896 1962 2009 2015 1984 2010 1960 1976 1970 1983 1998 1982 2003 1982 2018 1969 2018 1979 1994 1996 2003 1985 1998 1904 2018 2015 2013 1962 1976 2018 2014 1964 1895 2018 1957 1991 1965 1971 2009 2006 1935 1959 1956 2008 1994 2008 1989 2004 1979 2004 2018 2018 2005 2008 1955 2014 1939 2018 2009 2009 2018 1992 2018 1968 1978 2010

Wickets 795 189 431 421 702 560 376 362 355 373 330 405 144 307 216 336 151 564 619 414 421 259 186 519 430 205 193 178 249 185 236 170 383 113 112 139 390 313 325 106 228 202 116 202 161 125 229 297 173 192 433 242 434 291 234 200 177 141 309 417 255 104 313 59 178 248 101 186 102 170 252 246 94 259 155 76 170 308 212 199 180 208 266 218 215 151 216 248 160 311 144 149 87 355 214 113 318 174 189 261

Gold 13 4 7 8 8 5 7 6 5 3 1 6 2 4 3 7 4 6 6 4 4 0 3 4 11 6 3 4 3 4 3 7 6 1 4 7 3 5 3 2 4 2 1 2 2 1 2 7 2 3 6 4 5 3 6 4 3 4 3 9 1 1 5 2 1 1 3 0 1 0 2 4 0 2 0 3 1 0 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 3 0 2 2 1 0 3 1 2 3 2 1 1

Career 221 76 135 123 183 147 111 119 104 105 90 113 61 91 74 95 41 150 170 118 110 67 60 134 138 62 62 60 73 51 69 61 113 32 47 55 105 80 93 34 73 61 43 61 49 35 62 96 46 59 110 84 120 82 72 66 60 58 82 124 67 37 100 17 45 75 42 50 38 57 76 74 24 69 52 26 54 75 55 60 57 59 77 71 52 37 61 61 45 85 43 39 33 98 61 37 75 65 69 75

Overall 478 519 446 458 396 424 438 417 422 406 428 414 444 424 437 423 457 370 366 381 388 416 421 368 379 424 405 398 389 419 389 399 354 412 445 398 352 372 360 395 367 361 393 371 375 400 373 343 387 372 338 355 320 355 361 361 369 373 352 330 361 390 326 382 369 341 374 358 386 361 350 340 382 352 358 376 357 338 341 348 343 338 334 336 351 357 332 332 357 312 349 350 370 313 324 376 319 340 323 323

Peak 211 184 198 185 177 173 196 206 174 203 183 176 158 169 164 178 179 179 154 172 176 160 174 161 159 164 171 173 164 167 174 155 172 151 158 148 167 156 157 141 154 144 141 144 151 147 145 164 138 154 145 142 148 147 145 155 134 141 143 141 144 139 150 136 145 157 132 156 141 129 146 146 136 140 135 134 135 147 145 141 139 135 143 137 134 140 145 140 149 136 137 138 132 131 141 134 130 150 137 130

N.H. 88 107 99 91 89 96 90 81 88 81 88 91 107 79 99 71 70 66 65 81 77 94 86 78 62 71 66 86 86 56 68 88 71 93 123 75 59 70 68 97 78 99 91 84 83 69 81 70 83 78 65 72 65 68 77 63 83 75 74 56 78 70 71 107 80 80 66 73 82 84 68 74 75 74 77 95 76 64 68 71 66 74 63 73 66 69 67 72 74 71 70 69 72 63 63 48 71 57 64 66

Q.O. 93 82 87 88 89 89 92 83 87 80 85 75 87 87 73 78 88 69 76 76 75 87 79 77 76 84 95 80 75 92 83 79 69 85 0 96 72 75 72 82 76 79 76 80 79 82 70 56 74 65 70 74 73 74 70 79 77 72 69 68 66 81 69 74 75 61 93 71 54 69 60 66 81 64 73 63 72 61 76 64 77 74 65 57 68 70 67 66 45 63 68 71 57 58 69 63 61 43 62 60

1092 967 964 945 934 930 926 906 875 875 874 870 856 850 846 844 835 834 831 828 827 823 820 819 814 806 798 797 787 785 784 783 778 774 774 772 755 753 749 749 748 744 743 740 738 732 731 729 729 728 728 728 726 726 725 724 722 720 719 719 717 716 715 715 715 715 708 708 701 700 700 700 699 698 694 694 694 685 684 683 682 681 681 674 672 672 671 670 670 668 667 667 665 663 659 656 655 655 655 654

 

[shortpitched713]

Look at #16 and #18 you losers.

Recked

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Look at #16 and #18 you losers.

This seems to be from 2018 as well? Both could be top 10 by now

 

[shortpitched713]

This seems to be from 2018 as well? Both could be top 10 by now

No way Anderson went up much. He's kind of gone out with a whimper, not a bang.

Ashwin though, has maintained a very Ashwinesque standard.