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Ravichandran Ashwin vs Hedley Verity

Who is the better test bowler?


  • Total voters
    27

subshakerz

International Coach
You haven't said that at all. Please don't lie.
I've said it several times in the past few months/year.

I don't think Ashwin isn't capable of such performances, but for whatever reason he has missed out or has been unlucky.
Ashwin in the first half of his career genuinely struggled as an overseas bowler. However, he did improve as he went on, adding more skills and use of bounce and angles from the crease, and this coincided with India becoming a better team. He was decent overall in England and good in Australia towards the end. And it is fair to say that the team management should have showed him more faith in some of these tours. He was also unlucky that several of his better performances coincided with India losing too.

While he still struggled in places like SA and in certain key match situations when he should have run through a team away from India, overall it is also fair to say that more confidence in him as was the case with other champion spinners could have yielded better results.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Nah him being a biased drivelling idiot who hates Indian cricket is not an issue at all. It is only an issue when every bloody thread becomes all about it all the bloody time.

This one is on ankit and Houe though, they yelled his name enough times. :laugh:
You're still on about that supposed feud?
 

Xix2565

International Regular
I seem to have his Test figures as 144 wickets @24.37/77.5 though, in 40 Tests. Doesn't seem that great in this comparison.
 

ataraxia

International Coach
As you know test record is not the be-all and end-all until we get into post-WSC times, especially w.r.t. county players, magnified in the Bradman era.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
FC should be counted for players like Verity.
I disagree.

It's a point of context, but not necessarily something to take in lieu of a more substantial Test record (within the standards of the time). We know that some players simply over or underperform in comparison to FC record due to it being a different level.

40 Tests is enough to give some sort of judgement, but I think just because it isn't that impressive in comparison to Ashwin doesn't mean we should sweep it aside.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Definitely, but with an asterisk.
Yeah but would've been a factor. I'm sure Test sides from this prehistoric era were picked based at least partially, and independent of talent, on who could afford extended time off from coal-mining, stevedoring, and bushwhacking duties, so the step-up from FC to Test might've been smaller than what we've rightly expected it to be ever since.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
Yeah but would've been a factor. I'm sure Test sides from this prehistoric era were picked based at least partially, and independent of talent, on who could afford extended time off from coal-mining, stevedoring, and bushwhacking duties, so the step-up from FC to Test might've been smaller than what we've rightly expected it to be ever since.
Forgot the mammoth hunting and cave painting.....
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Look at #16 and #18 you losers.
Okay, here is a breakdown of the points.


1 M Muralitharan
2 SF Barnes
3 Sir RJ Hadlee
4 DW Steyn
5 SK Warne
6 GD McGrath
7 MD Marshall
8 Imran Khan
9 DK Lillee
10 Waqar Younis
11 AA Donald
12 CEL Ambrose
13 WJ O'Reilly
14 FS Trueman
15 CV Grimmett
16 R Ashwin
17 K Rabada
18 JM Anderson
19 A Kumble
20 Wasim Akram
21 SM Pollock
22 J Garner
23 AK Davidson
24 CA Walsh
25 HMRKB Herath
26 VD Philander
27 JC Laker
28 Shoaib Akhtar
29 MA Holding
30 RA Jadeja
31 AV Bedser
32 HJ Tayfield
33 IT Botham
34 RJ Harris
35 GA Lohmann
36 Fazal Mahmood
37 M Ntini
38 MG Johnson
39 RGD Willis
40 Mohammad Asif
41 RR Lindwall
42 JA Snow
43 PM Pollock
44 AME Roberts
45 IR Bishop
46 CEH Croft
47 D Gough
48 DL Underwood
49 Yasir Shah
50 WW Hall
51 SCJ Broad
52 BS Chandrasekhar
53 N Kapil Dev
54 CJ McDermott
55 AR Caddick
56 JR Thomson
57 ARC Fraser
58 H Trumble
59 M Morkel
60 Harbhajan Singh
61 GP Swann
62 NAT Adcock
63 LR Gibbs
64 Mohammad Abbas
65 Saeed Ajmal
66 R Benaud
67 CTB Turner
68 MA Starc
69 JH Wardle
70 TM Alderman
71 JB Statham
72 GD McKenzie
73 SR Clark
74 JN Gillespie
75 MW Tate
76 FH Tyson
77 KR Miller
78 B Lee
79 MG Hughes
80 SCG MacGill
81 GF Lawson
82 Saqlain Mushtaq
83 BS Bedi
84 CL Cairns
85 TA Boult
86 JR Hazlewood
87 HH Streak
88 MJ Hoggard
89 WA Johnston
90 Z Khan
91 H Verity
92 N Wagner
93 SE Bond
94 WPUJC Vaas
95 PM Siddle
96 BA Reid
97 NM Lyon
98 GAR Lock
99 EAS Prasanna
100 Danish Kaneria
Start
1992
1901
1973
2004
1992
1993
1978
1971
1971
1989
1992
1988
1932
1952
1925
2011
2015
2003
1990
1985
1995
1977
1953
1984
1999
2011
1948
1997
1975
2012
1946
1949
1977
2010
1886
1952
1998
2007
1971
2005
1946
1965
1961
1974
1989
1977
1994
1966
2014
1958
2007
1964
1978
1984
1993
1972
1989
1890
2006
1998
2008
1953
1958
2017
2009
1952
1887
2011
1948
1981
1951
1961
2006
1996
1924
1954
1946
1999
1985
1998
1980
1995
1966
1989
2011
2014
1993
2000
1947
2000
1931
2012
2001
1994
2008
1985
2011
1952
1962
2000
End
2010
1914
1990
2018
2007
2007
1991
1992
1984
2003
2002
2000
1946
1965
1936
2018
2018
2018
2008
2002
2008
1987
1963
2001
2018
2018
1959
2007
1987
2018
1955
1960
1992
2015
1896
1962
2009
2015
1984
2010
1960
1976
1970
1983
1998
1982
2003
1982
2018
1969
2018
1979
1994
1996
2003
1985
1998
1904
2018
2015
2013
1962
1976
2018
2014
1964
1895
2018
1957
1991
1965
1971
2009
2006
1935
1959
1956
2008
1994
2008
1989
2004
1979
2004
2018
2018
2005
2008
1955
2014
1939
2018
2009
2009
2018
1992
2018
1968
1978
2010
Wickets
795
189
431
421
702
560
376
362
355
373
330
405
144
307
216
336
151
564
619
414
421
259
186
519
430
205
193
178
249
185
236
170
383
113
112
139
390
313
325
106
228
202
116
202
161
125
229
297
173
192
433
242
434
291
234
200
177
141
309
417
255
104
313
59
178
248
101
186
102
170
252
246
94
259
155
76
170
308
212
199
180
208
266
218
215
151
216
248
160
311
144
149
87
355
214
113
318
174
189
261
Gold
13
4
7
8
8
5
7
6
5
3
1
6
2
4
3
7
4
6
6
4
4
0
3
4
11
6
3
4
3
4
3
7
6
1
4
7
3
5
3
2
4
2
1
2
2
1
2
7
2
3
6
4
5
3
6
4
3
4
3
9
1
1
5
2
1
1
3
0
1
0
2
4
0
2
0
3
1
0
1
2
2
1
1
1
1
0
0
3
0
2
2
1
0
3
1
2
3
2
1
1
Career
221
76
135
123
183
147
111
119
104
105
90
113
61
91
74
95
41
150
170
118
110
67
60
134
138
62
62
60
73
51
69
61
113
32
47
55
105
80
93
34
73
61
43
61
49
35
62
96
46
59
110
84
120
82
72
66
60
58
82
124
67
37
100
17
45
75
42
50
38
57
76
74
24
69
52
26
54
75
55
60
57
59
77
71
52
37
61
61
45
85
43
39
33
98
61
37
75
65
69
75
Overall
478
519
446
458
396
424
438
417
422
406
428
414
444
424
437
423
457
370
366
381
388
416
421
368
379
424
405
398
389
419
389
399
354
412
445
398
352
372
360
395
367
361
393
371
375
400
373
343
387
372
338
355
320
355
361
361
369
373
352
330
361
390
326
382
369
341
374
358
386
361
350
340
382
352
358
376
357
338
341
348
343
338
334
336
351
357
332
332
357
312
349
350
370
313
324
376
319
340
323
323
Peak
211
184
198
185
177
173
196
206
174
203
183
176
158
169
164
178
179
179
154
172
176
160
174
161
159
164
171
173
164
167
174
155
172
151
158
148
167
156
157
141
154
144
141
144
151
147
145
164
138
154
145
142
148
147
145
155
134
141
143
141
144
139
150
136
145
157
132
156
141
129
146
146
136
140
135
134
135
147
145
141
139
135
143
137
134
140
145
140
149
136
137
138
132
131
141
134
130
150
137
130
N.H.
88
107
99
91
89
96
90
81
88
81
88
91
107
79
99
71
70
66
65
81
77
94
86
78
62
71
66
86
86
56
68
88
71
93
123
75
59
70
68
97
78
99
91
84
83
69
81
70
83
78
65
72
65
68
77
63
83
75
74
56
78
70
71
107
80
80
66
73
82
84
68
74
75
74
77
95
76
64
68
71
66
74
63
73
66
69
67
72
74
71
70
69
72
63
63
48
71
57
64
66
Q.O.
93
82
87
88
89
89
92
83
87
80
85
75
87
87
73
78
88
69
76
76
75
87
79
77
76
84
95
80
75
92
83
79
69
85
0
96
72
75
72
82
76
79
76
80
79
82
70
56
74
65
70
74
73
74
70
79
77
72
69
68
66
81
69
74
75
61
93
71
54
69
60
66
81
64
73
63
72
61
76
64
77
74
65
57
68
70
67
66
45
63
68
71
57
58
69
63
61
43
62
60

1092
967
964
945
934
930
926
906
875
875
874
870
856
850
846
844
835
834
831
828
827
823
820
819
814
806
798
797
787
785
784
783
778
774
774
772
755
753
749
749
748
744
743
740
738
732
731
729
729
728
728
728
726
726
725
724
722
720
719
719
717
716
715
715
715
715
708
708
701
700
700
700
699
698
694
694
694
685
684
683
682
681
681
674
672
672
671
670
670
668
667
667
665
663
659
656
655
655
655
654
 

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