kyear2
International Coach
Wouldn't argue that.That pretty much wipes that listed team from contention then
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Greatest teams of all time.
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
West Indies lost to Australia 5-1 in 1975/76 and WSC was 1977-79 so not sure how that Team is up there unless you're counting WSC. 1979/80 was WI taking over World Test cricket from my memory
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
That win in Aus was the series that announced them as the best and in a separate tier from the rest. They had erased the demons from the last tour
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
I find it interesting that Graveney didn't include Hutton's 1954/55 side that won 3-1 in Australia, as that's a more impressive performance than either of the wins in 1953 and 1956. I suppose that means picking Tyson, on the basis of one outstanding series, ahead of Trueman's far superior longevity. And Appleyard and Wardle ahead of the generally more lauded Laker and Lock. But I know which achievement I reckon is superior.
So your first two teams are now found to be 'paper' teams rather than actual XI's that played together. Should we now check the other 6?
I'm pretty sure your 2nd WI XI and 2nd Aus XI are real, I don't know enough about the other 4 teams?
Coronis
International Coach
Uh yes, England selections were very high quality in this time period, especially regarding bowlers.
Good point. The 1953 and 1956 sides were well equipped for home matches in favourable conditions. In his West Indies 1954 end of tour report, Hutton made clear that Trueman, Lock and Laker were not in his plans for the following winter as none would be good enough on Australian pitches.
Bedser had been rested for the West Indies and was rested again, along with Bailey, for the last Test of the home summer against Pakistan. England gave debuts to Tyson and Loader to take a look at them. On a pitch tailor-made for medium pace, Fazal took 12 wickets and levelled the series for the visitors. Bailey's absence was also highlighted by Evans batting number six ahead of five specialist bowlers.
For the first Test of the 1954-55 series at Brisbane, England fielded no spinner for only the second time ever and lost by an innings. (On the other occasion they suffered their one defeat of the Bodyline series). Bedser was dropped. Wardle and Appleyard played all the remaining Tests, three of which were won. With Tyson, Statham and Bailey completing a perfectly balanced attack in Australian conditions, Hutton's selections appeared justified.
kyear2
International Coach
Want to keep this separate, but looking at the squads, especially starting from the 60's squads, they almost seems to be a facsimile of each other.
A really good opener, must have at least one
An aggressive middle order lead by an ATG
A fearsome opening attack led by at least one ATG
A brilliant keeper and cordon to support the bowlers
No team will have everything, but it seems that some aren't negotiable, you need that alpha male in your middle order, with the ability to up the tempo when needed, and that fast bowling presence, up front, and the ability to consistently take you catches and the half chances where possible.
Just my throw away thoughts.
kyear2
International Coach
Please note that those were similar to teams as listed multiple times in the thread as well, including the op. I also tried to ensure they all played in the same series.
Both SA, Australia & WI teams I did check to verify they played together, the Indian one as well.
Any other critiques?
The 1st WI XI (Hunte-Carew-Kanhai-Butcher-Sobers-Solomon-Worrell-Murray-Hall-Griffith-Gibbs) played at Manchester and Birmingham in 1963 (Carew and Murray's first series and Worrell's last).
The 1st SA XI (Richards-Goddard-Bacher-G Pollock-Barlow-Irvine-Lance-Lindsay-Procter-Pollock-Traicos) played at Johannesburg in 1970.
The 2nd WI XI (Greenidge-Haynes-Richardson-Richards-Gomes-Lloyd-Dujon-Marshall-Holding-Garner-Walsh) played at Perth, Brisbane and Sydney in 1984. (The Sydney Test they lost by an innings).
Hayden-Langer-Ponting-Waugh-Martyn-Waugh-Gilchrist-Warne-Lee-Gillespie-McGrath played 9 Tests together in 2001-2.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I dont think we can put 70s SA there or can we?
kyear2
International Coach
???
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
It's kind of an open question given how much they played.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
And it's a fair question.
Only played one series vs. The quality of players in the side as also demonstrated in previous tests and subsequently in WSC and elsewhere.
I tend not to, but others will disagree.
Some would even argue that we shouldn't be swayed by 4-0 against a transitional Australian side.
kyear2
International Coach
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, but they did won 7 series straight post WWII till '53; loosing 2 matches while winning 24.
kyear2
International Coach
No Bradman though, which is the primary attraction of the invincibles.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
We do also have the 1946/47 series which did include Bradman of course. The general focus seems to be how weak England were in that series, but that's slightly unfair to the Australian side.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Different issue completely. The Australian team post War till '52 was as dominant as any ever, with or without Don.