Greatest teams of all time.

[S.Kennedy]

Not sure why Broads in your team though, he only played 2 tests in the 10/11 Ashes? Apart from that our teams are not dissimilar and it seems to be a clear win for 2010/11 to me.

He played no less than Bresnan, and Tremlett only played one more test. Well, I'm cheating a bit with Broad and looking outside and beyond that Ashes. He did have that amazing spell at The Oval in '09 so he was already on his way.

So in spite of arguing 2005 is better you make it 6-4 in favour of 2010/11...

I do not think there is any argument against 2010-11 being more consistent across the board, throughout all eleven players, but the question on whether or not it is better is decided in 2005's favour (for me). I suppose one way to look at it is 2005's greats, the bowling quartet above all else not to mention Vaughan's inspired captaincy, compensate for any shortcomings be they wicket-keeping, spin or Bell's batting. Also, and this is just a personal aesthetic preference, but I find Strauss's top order - Cook, Strauss himself and Trott - to be a great incentive to head to the bar. 2005 had Trescothick and, although he didn't have the best series, Vaughan.

One thing the 2010-11 lacked was an all-rounder, least of all a talismanic career defining all-rounder which '05 had in spades in Freddie; the closest to an all-rounder 2010 had was Collingwood who was really a part-timer at test level - he only bowled 31 overs I see all series. I suppose Broad was being talked of as an 'all-rounder' in those days and he played two!

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah KP was equally good in both series, but I was at Adelaide Oval when he made that double so he get's my nod for 10/11 for that.

Not sure why Broads in your team though, he only played 2 tests in the 10/11 Ashes? Apart from that our teams are not dissimilar and it seems to be a clear win for 2010/11 to me.

If we're considering 2010-11 as a whole instead of only the ashes,then Broad definitely gets in for what he did to India.

 

[wpdavid]

If we're looking at 2004 to 2005 as a whole versus 2010 to 2012 as a whole, then I'll pick Thorpe alongside KP in the middle order.
Which probably justifies Broad's inclusion even if he missed much of the 2010-11 Ashes.

btw if I can nitpick a bit, the earlier team did't really come together until 2004, as Hoggard and Jones were injured for much/all of 2003.
Their period of excellence as a unit only really lasted for 18 months.

fwiw here's my combined side from the two eras.

1. Strauss (the 2004/05 version)
2. Trescothick
3. Trott
4. KP
5. Thorpe
6. Flintoff
7. Prior
8. Swann
9. Broad
10. Jones
11. Anderson

 

[S.Kennedy]

The sad thing about these line-ups was they probably would have happened. If the likes of Jones, Vaughan, Harmison, Flintoff were not all knackered out of the game, Jimmy and Stuart would have been reaching their peak during the tail end of their careers. Also it doesn't help that Troy Cooley buggered up Anderson's action. Anderson had already played twelve tests before the '05 Ashes and was unlucky to have not made The Oval while Cook and Broad would make their test debuts 2006-07.

But, that is injury and sport.

And that is without mentioning the generally 'Pietersen inspired; politics of that era. Moores etc.

 

[wpdavid]

The sad thing about these line-ups was they probably would have happened. If the likes of Jones, Vaughan, Harmison, Flintoff were not all knackered out of the game, Jimmy and Stuart would have been reaching their peak during the tail end of their careers. Also it doesn't help that Troy Cooley buggered up Anderson's action. Anderson had already played twelve tests before the '05 Ashes and was unlucky to have not made The Oval while Cook and Broad would make their test debuts 2006-07.

But, that is injury and sport.

And that is without mentioning the generally 'Pietersen inspired; politics of that era. Moores etc.

I suspect that your final point had an impact on the 2012 series against SA, wherever blame needs to be apportioned. Certainly comparing that series to the one in SA two and a half years earlier, where we competed much better, even if we were unhealthily reliant of Graham Onions' batting.

 

[Adders]

If we're looking at 2004 to 2005 as a whole versus 2010 to 2012 as a whole, then I'll pick Thorpe alongside KP in the middle order.
Which probably justifies Broad's inclusion even if he missed much of the 2010-11 Ashes.

btw if I can nitpick a bit, the earlier team did't really come together until 2004, as Hoggard and Jones were injured for much/all of 2003.
Their period of excellence as a unit only really lasted for 18 months.

fwiw here's my combined side from the two eras.

1. Strauss (the 2004/05 version)
2. Trescothick
3. Trott
4. KP
5. Thorpe
6. Flintoff
7. Prior
8. Swann
9. Broad
10. Jones
11. Anderson

Surely 2010-2012 Cook gets in??? He was a machine for most of those 3 years!

 

[Red]

So, what about "the greatest teams of all time" instead of "which mediocre England side was not that bad for once"?

 

[Adders]

Don't try to be a Burgey RH......it doesn't suite you

 

[TheJediBrah]

So, what about "the greatest teams of all time" instead of "which mediocre England side was not that bad for once"?

We're all thinking it but too polite to say it

anyway let them have their fun

 

[S.Kennedy]

Worrell's West Indies.

 

[kyear2]

Possibly the best 8 lineups since the war?

Australia
Barnes
Morris
Bradman
Hassett
Miller
Harvey
Johnson
Tallon
Lindwall
Johnston
Toshack

England
Hutton
Edrich
May
Compton
Graveney
Bailey
Evans
Laker
Statham
Trueman
Bedser

West Indies
Hunte
Carew
Kanhai
Sobers
Butcher
Solomon
Worrell
Murray
Hall
Griffith
Gibbs

South Africa
Richards
Goddard
Bacher
Pollock
Barlow
Irvine
Lance
Lindsay
Procter
Pollock
Traicos

West Indies
Greenidge
Haynes
Richardson
Richards
Gomes
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Walsh

Australia
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Waugh
Martyn
Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

South Africa
Smith
McKenzie
Amla
Kallis
de Villiers
Prince
Boucher
Morkel
Harris
Steyn
Ntini

India
Dhawan
Rahul
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pant
Jadeja
Ashwin
Sharma
Shami
Bumrah

Not going to attempt to rank them or profess that the list is perfect.

 

[Xix2565]

Would have Rohit over Dhawan, Rahane I'm not sure to keep or replace with Gill.

 

[shortpitched713]

South Africa
Smith
McKenzie
Amla
Kallis
de Villiers
Prince
Boucher
Morkel
Harris
Steyn
Ntini

No Philander No party

 

[AndrewB]

Possibly the best 8 lineups since the war?

Australia
Barnes
Morris
Bradman
Hassett
Miller
Harvey
Johnson
Tallon
Lindwall
Johnston
Toshack

England
Hutton
Edrich
May
Compton
Graveney
Bailey
Evans
Laker
Statham
Trueman
Bedser

Did either of those two line-ups ever actually happen?

FWIW, in "Ten Greatest Test Teams" (post-war teams up to 1987), Graveney's top five teams were
1 - Bradman's 1948 Australia
2 - Lloyd's 1984 West Indies
3 - Chappell's 1975 Australia
4 - Worrell's 1963 West Indies
5 - Hutton's 1953 England

with the 1969 South Africa team in 7th (behind May's 1956 England, which obviously has a few overlaps with the 1953 England team).

 

[Qlder]

Possibly the best 8 lineups since the war?

Australia
Barnes
Morris
Bradman
Hassett
Miller
Harvey
Johnson
Tallon
Lindwall
Johnston
Toshack

Did either of those two line-ups ever actually happen?

Close but this team never played together. Closest they came was one test vs India on Neil Harvey's debut where Colin McCool played instead of Bill Johnston

AUS vs IND Cricket Scorecard, 4th Test at Adelaide, January 23 - 28, 1948

Get cricket scorecard of 4th Test, AUS vs IND, India tour of Australia 1947/48 at Adelaide Oval dated January 23 - 28, 1948.

www.espncricinfo.com

Harvey played only 3 other Tests with Bradman which includes these players not in his team:

- Bill Brown, Sam Loxton, Len Johnson & Doug Ring
- Sam Loxton & Ron Saggers
- Sam Loxton & Doug Ring

 

[peterhrt]

Did either of those two line-ups ever actually happen?

The England one didn't. The deciding Test at The Oval in 1953 saw one change from this line-up: Lock for Statham.

By the end of the following year all four specialist bowlers from The Oval had been discarded. Trueman, Bedser, Lock and Laker had been replaced by Tyson, Statham, Wardle and Appleyard. All on skipper Hutton's say-so. The only constant was all-rounder Bailey.

Trueman, Statham and Bedser never played together.

 

[kyear2]

Did either of those two line-ups ever actually happen?

FWIW, in "Ten Greatest Test Teams" (post-war teams up to 1987), Graveney's top five teams were
1 - Bradman's 1948 Australia
2 - Lloyd's 1984 West Indies
3 - Chappell's 1975 Australia
4 - Worrell's 1963 West Indies
5 - Hutton's 1953 England

with the 1969 South Africa team in 7th (behind May's 1956 England, which obviously has a few overlaps with the 1953 England team).

They didn't take the field together, but existed within the same series. Harvey and Trueman in particular were only just breaking into the lineups and weren't there the entire series.

Kinda think that should count, but wouldn't argue against dissenting views.

 

[Qlder]

They didn't take the field together, but existed within the same series. Harvey and Trueman in particular were only just breaking into the lineups and weren't there the entire series.

Kinda think that should count, but wouldn't argue against dissenting views.

Thread is " The Greatest Teams of all Time". If an XI never took the field together how can that XI be deemed the greatest team of all time?

This is why I rate the Windies 80's team so highly as you can easily name an XI that probably played 20+ Tests together (rather than almost one Test)

 

[Qlder]

The England one didn't.
...
Trueman, Statham and Bedser never played together.

That pretty much wipes that listed team from contention then

 

[kyear2]

Did either of those two line-ups ever actually happen?

FWIW, in "Ten Greatest Test Teams" (post-war teams up to 1987), Graveney's top five teams were
1 - Bradman's 1948 Australia
2 - Lloyd's 1984 West Indies
3 - Chappell's 1975 Australia
4 - Worrell's 1963 West Indies
5 - Hutton's 1953 England

with the 1969 South Africa team in 7th (behind May's 1956 England, which obviously has a few overlaps with the 1953 England team).

I would say that the primary difference between then and now would be the 2000's Aussie team over Hutton's one in the top 5. I think the subsequent SA squad for me rolls in just after?

If I were to try to rank them


1. '84 West Indies
1. '02 Australia
3. '48 Australia

4. '08 South Africa
5. '75 Australia
6. '63 West Indies

7. '70 South Africa
8. '53 England

I could also name the '76 - '79 West Indies, but a lot of cross over.

Thoughts on the order?