The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[capt_Luffy]

Let me try my hand.....

1877-1900:

W G Grace (c)
Arthur Shrewsbury
Archie Maclaren
K S Ranjitsinhji
Stanley Jackson
Allan Steel
Jack Blackham (wk)
Hugh Trumble
George Lohmann
Tom Richardson
Fred Spofforth

Subs:

Joe Darling
Bill Murdoch
George Giffen
Billy Barnes
Charlie Turner
Johnny Briggs
Bobby Peel


1901-1925:

Victor Trumper
Jack Hobbs
Charlie MaCartney
Clem Hill
Herbie Taylor (c)
Aubrey Faulkner
Jack Gregory
Wilfred Rhodes
Dick Lilley (wk)
Sydney Barnes
Colin Blythe

Subs:

Warren Bardsley
C B Fry
Frank Woolley
Monty Noble
Herbert Strudwick
Tibby Cotter
Billy Whitty



1926-1950:

Herbert Sutcliffe
Bruce Mitchell
Don Bradman (c)
George Headley
Wally Hammond
Dudley Nourse
Les Ames (wk)
Maurice Tate
Harold Larwood
Hedley Verity
Bill O'Reilly

Subs:

Bill Ponsford
Stan McCabe
Jock Cameron
Learie Constantine
Bill Voce
Bill Bowes
Clarrie Grimmett


1951-1975:

Len Hutton (c)
Barry Richards
Ken Barrington
Graeme Pollock
Garry Sobers
Keith Miller
Mike Procter
John Waite (wk)
Ray Lindwall
Fred Trueman
Jim Laker


Subs:

Bob Simpson
Everton Weekes
Clyde Walcott
Alan Davidson
Alec Bedser
Richie Benaud
Derek Underwood


1976-2000:

Sunil Gavaskar
Gordon Greenidge
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Ian Botham
Imran Khan (c)
Alan Knott (wk)
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

Subs:

Geoff Boycott
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Ian Healy
Wasim Akram
Curtly Ambrose
Anil Kumble


2001-2024:

Graeme Smith (c)
Virendra Sehwag
Kumar Sangakkara
Steve Smith
Jacques Kallis
Ricky Ponting
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Pat Cummins
Dale Steyn
Glenn McGrath
Mutthiah Muralitharan

Subs:

Matthew Hayden
Rahul Dravid
Virat Kohli
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Jasprit Bumrah
James Anderson

 

[Coronis]

I would say Ranji is a notable omission in the first team.

I honestly thought I had already put Ranji in there, I’d have him instead of McLaren.

Good teams

Ranji in the 1st team?
MacCartney in the 2nd.

Tate (or Cowie) ahead of Voce
Also Nourse was a better bat, but McCabe gives a decent 4th seamer (Wally H as 3rd).

Tayfield is an interesting pick

Nah I never got the MacCartney hype, never will. Tate was definitely a big consideration instead of Grimmett but couldn’t leave him out. Cowie nah nothing against him but he just doesn’t do it for me. Voce I had to pick - he was the leading pace bowler of the era, and prominently involved in Bodyline. McCabe is probably a better choice than Nourse, for his bowling and iconic innings, and of course I grew up reading all about him (Nourse not so much, besides, Mitchell is already in there).

I literally completely forgot about Laker somehow. So he would be there instead of Tayfield. 19/90 who can forget.

 

[peterhrt]

CW Top 100 Cricketers distribution by eras above:

1877-1900: 3
1901-25: 7
1926-50: 14
1951-75: 21
1976-2000: 26
2001-24: 29

 

[kyear2]

Great post and obviously a lot of work, but nothing grinds my gears more than Imran batting #6 in an ATG side.

Out of 126 innings he batted 23 times at #6 (a lot of those when limited in bowling). So you're leaving out a Chappell/ Border/Waugh for a #7 at best (he batted 63 times at #7 and 30 times at #8)

Yeah, I'm not saying don't play him, but can't be at 6, contrary to Subz's assertions he wasn't specialist level and definitely not at the expense of Chappell or Border.

If it's Chappell he strengthens the cordon, if it's Border he would captain.

Good effort by @Coronis

 

[Coronis]

Great post and obviously a lot of work, but nothing grinds my gears more than Imran batting #6 in an ATG side.

Out of 126 innings he batted 23 times at #6 (a lot of those when limited in bowling). So you're leaving out a Chappell/ Border/Waugh for a #7 at best (he batted 63 times at #7 and 30 times at #8)

Yeah I mean, Imran just has to be in the XI. Upon reflection, I’d say Imran replaces Ambrose and Border comes in at 6. Career’s completely within that timeframe and he was the face of Aussie cricket for a decade or so.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah I mean, Imran just has to be in the XI. Upon reflection, I’d say Imran replaces Ambrose and Border comes in at 6. Career’s completely within that timeframe and he was the face of Aussie cricket for a decade or so.

How about Botham at 6 and a tail of Imran, Knott/Healy, and Hadlee?

 

[Coronis]

How about Botham at 6 and a tail of Imran, Knott/Healy, and Hadlee?

Nah I’m not gonna add in Botham just for the sake of it. Knott’s already in the earlier team, where he played the majority of his matches.

 

[kyear2]

I'll try my hand

1900 - 1925
Hobbs
Taylor
Hill
Trumper
Macartney
Faulkner
Gregory
Rhodes
Lilley
Blythe
Barnes

1926 - 1949
Sutcliffe
Mitchell
Bradman
Headley
Hammond
Nourse
Ames
Larwood
Grimmett
Voce
O'Reilly

1950 - 1975
Hutton
Richards
Barrington
Pollock
Walcott
Sobers
Knott
Procter
Lindwall
Trueman
Laker

1976 - 1999
Gavaskar
Greenidge
Richards
Tendulkar
Lara
Chappell
Healy
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne

2000 - 2024
Smith
Hayden
Ponting
Smith
Kallis
Sangakkara
Gilchrist
Steyn
McGrath
Muralitharan
Bumrah

 

[kyear2]

Let me try my hand.....

1877-1900:

W G Grace (c)
Arthur Shrewsbury
Archie Maclaren
K S Ranjitsinhji
Stanley Jackson
Allan Steel
Jack Blackham (wk)
Hugh Trumble
George Lohmann
Tom Richardson
Fred Spofforth

Subs:

Joe Darling
Bill Murdoch
George Giffen
Billy Barnes
Charlie Turner
Johnny Briggs
Bobby Peel


1901-1925:

Victor Trumper
Jack Hobbs
Charlie MaCartney
Clem Hill
Herbie Taylor (c)
Aubrey Faulkner
Jack Gregory
Wilfred Rhodes
Dick Lilley (wk)
Sydney Barnes
Colin Blythe

Subs:

Warren Bardsley
C B Fry
Frank Woolley
Monty Noble
Herbert Strudwick
Tibby Cotter
Billy Whitty



1926-1950:

Herbert Sutcliffe
Bruce Mitchell
Don Bradman (c)
George Headley
Wally Hammond
Dudley Nourse
Les Ames (wk)
Maurice Tate
Harold Larwood
Hedley Verity
Bill O'Reilly

Subs:

Bill Ponsford
Stan McCabe
Jock Cameron
Learie Constantine
Bill Voce
Bill Bowes
Clarrie Grimmett


1951-1975:

Len Hutton (c)
Barry Richards
Ken Barrington
Graeme Pollock
Garry Sobers
Keith Miller
Mike Procter
John Waite (wk)
Ray Lindwall
Fred Trueman
Jim Laker


Subs:

Bob Simpson
Everton Weekes
Clyde Walcott
Alan Davidson
Alec Bedser
Richie Benaud
Derek Underwood


1976-2000:

Sunil Gavaskar
Gordon Greenidge
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Ian Botham
Imran Khan (c)
Alan Knott (wk)
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

Subs:

Geoff Boycott
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Ian Healy
Wasim Akram
Curtly Ambrose
Anil Kumble


2001-2024:

Graeme Smith (c)
Virendra Sehwag
Kumar Sangakkara
Steve Smith
Jacques Kallis
Ricky Ponting
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Pat Cummins
Dale Steyn
Glenn McGrath
Mutthiah Muralitharan

Subs:

Matthew Hayden
Rahul Dravid
Virat Kohli
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Jasprit Bumrah
James Anderson

With Sobers there, don't see the benefit of Miller tbh.

 

[Qlder]

How do Tendulker and Lara keep getting picked by most in the 1975-1999 team?

Tendulker is 18th highest run scorer in that period while Lara is 20th. Picked on name and career records only I'd say. Border and Miandad and even Steve Waugh much more representative of that era

 

[capt_Luffy]

With Sobers there, don't see the benefit of Miller tbh.

With Procter at 7, Waite at 8 and Lindwall at 9, you hardly need an extra batter as well. Lindwall, Miller, Procter, Trueman; really liked this attack.

 

[kyear2]

With Procter at 7, Waite at 8 and Lindwall at 9, you hardly need an extra batter as well. Lindwall, Miller, Procter, Trueman; really liked this attack.

Lindwall averaged just above 20 and even Procter's fc average was mid 30's, not nearly enough to nullify the need for an extra bat.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lindwall averaged just above 20 and even Procter's fc average was mid 30's, not nearly enough to nullify the need for an extra bat.

Miller, Procter, Waite and Lindwall makes up for more than an extra Batsman.

 

[kyear2]

Miller, Procter, Waite and Lindwall makes up for more than an extra Batsman.

That's not how that works. Quantity doesn't equal quality.

Miller isn't an ATG batsman nor bowler, don't see how he fits into a team like this. Imran at least has a claim as an ATG bowler.

But we've had this conversation before

 

[Coronis]

That's not how that works. Quality doesn't equal quality.

Miller isn't an ATG batsman nor bowler, don't see how he fits into a team like this. Imran at least has a claim as an ATG bowler.

But we've had this conversation before

It doesn’t?!

But anyways yeah these teams weren’t necessarily meant to be the “best”. More of players you see as defining those eras of cricket.

 

[capt_Luffy]

That's not how that works. Quality doesn't equal quality.

Miller isn't an ATG batsman nor bowler, don't see how he fits into a team like this. Imran at least has a claim as an ATG bowler.

But we've had this conversation before

LATD

 

[kyear2]

It doesn’t?!

But anyways yeah these teams weren’t necessarily meant to be the “best”. More of players you see as defining those eras of cricket.

Apologies, should have been quantity doesn't equal quality.

 

[kyear2]

Nice vid

 

[kyear2]

Australia XI

Robert Simpson^
Matthew Hayden
Sir Donald Bradman
Steven Smith^
Greg Chappell^
Allan Border (c)
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Patrick Cummins ³
Shane Warne ⁴
Dennis Lillee ²
Glenn McGrath ¹

West Indies XI

Sir Frank Worrell (c)
Sir Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Sir I. V. A. Richards^
Brian Lara^
Sir Garfield Sobers^ ⁵
Sir Frank Walcott (wk)
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Michael Holding ³
Joel Garner ⁴
Sir Curtly Ambrose ²

South Africa XI

Barry Richards^
Graeme Smith^(c)
Hashim Amla
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis^⁵
Dudley Nourse
Quinton de Kock (wk)
Michael Procter ³
Hugh Tayfield ⁴
Dale Steyn ¹
Allan Donald ²

England XI

Sir John Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton (c)
Walter Hammond^
Joseph Root
Ken Barrington^
Sir Ian Botham^⁴
Allan Knott (wk)
Headley Verity ⁵
Frank Tyson ²
Fred Trueman ¹
Sydney Barnes ³

Pakistan XI

Saaed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Younis Khan^
Javed Miandad^
Inzamam ul-Haq^
Mushtaq Mohammad ⁵
Imran Khan ¹(c)
Rashid Latiff (wk)
Wasim Akram ²
Saqlain Mushtaq ⁴
Waqar Younis ³

India XI

Sunil Gavaskar^
Virender Sehwag^
Rahul Dravid^
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli
MS Dhoni (c) (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja ⁵
Kapil Dev ³
Ravichandran Ashwin ⁴
Mohammad Shami ²
Jasprit Bumrah ¹


World XI

Barry Richards^
Sir Leonard Hutton
Sir Donald Bradman (c)
Sir I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^⁵
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Wasim Akram ³
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Shane Warne ⁴
Glenn McGrath ²

World XI (2)

Sir John Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Walter Hammond^
Steven Smith
Brian Lara^
Jacques Kallis^⁵
Imran Khan (c)³
Allan Knott (wk)
Richard Hadlee ²
Dale Steyn ¹
Muttiah Muralitharan ⁴

World XI (3)

Herbert Sutcliffe
Graeme Smith^(c)
George Headley
Greg Chappell^
Ricky Ponting^
Kumar Sangakkara (wk)
Keith Miller ⁵
Mike Procter ³
Dennis Lillee ¹
Curtly Ambrose ²
William O'Reilly ⁴

 

[capt_Luffy]

Australia XI

Robert Simpson^
Matthew Hayden
Sir Donald Bradman
Steven Smith^
Greg Chappell^
Allan Border (c)
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Patrick Cummins ³
Shane Warne ⁴
Dennis Lillee ²
Glenn McGrath ¹

West Indies XI

Sir Frank Worrell (c)
Sir Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Sir I. V. A. Richards^
Brian Lara^
Sir Garfield Sobers^ ⁵
Sir Frank Walcott (wk)
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Michael Holding ³
Joel Garner ⁴
Sir Curtly Ambrose ²

South Africa XI

Barry Richards^
Graeme Smith^(c)
Hashim Amla
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis^⁵
Dudley Nourse
Quinton de Kock (wk)
Michael Procter ³
Hugh Tayfield ⁴
Dale Steyn ¹
Allan Donald ²

England XI

Sir John Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton (c)
Walter Hammond^
Joseph Root
Ken Barrington^
Sir Ian Botham^⁴
Allan Knott (wk)
Headley Verity ⁵
Frank Tyson ²
Fred Trueman ¹
Sydney Barnes ³

Pakistan XI

Saaed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Younis Khan^
Javed Miandad^
Inzamam ul-Haq^
Mushtaq Mohammad ⁵
Imran Khan ¹(c)
Rashid Latiff (wk)
Wasim Akram ²
Saqlain Mushtaq ⁴
Waqar Younis ³

India XI

Sunil Gavaskar^
Virender Sehwag^
Rahul Dravid^
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli
MS Dhoni (c) (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja ⁵
Kapil Dev ³
Ravichandran Ashwin ⁴
Mohammad Shami ²
Jasprit Bumrah ¹


World XI

Barry Richards^
Sir Leonard Hutton
Sir Donald Bradman (c)
Sir I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^⁵
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Wasim Akram ³
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Shane Warne ⁴
Glenn McGrath ²

World XI (2)

Sir John Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Walter Hammond^
Steven Smith
Brian Lara^
Jacques Kallis^⁵
Imran Khan (c)³
Allan Knott (wk)
Richard Hadlee ²
Dale Steyn ¹
Muttiah Muralitharan ⁴

World XI (3)

Herbert Sutcliffe
Graeme Smith^(c)
George Headley
Greg Chappell^
Ricky Ponting^
Kumar Sangakkara (wk)
Keith Miller ⁵
Mike Procter ³
Dennis Lillee ¹
Curtly Ambrose ²
William O'Reilly ⁴

Never understood how you can include Botham in the English XI but go on rants on how Miller is unacceptable in Australia.....