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Muttiah Muralitharan vs Viv Richards

Who is the better test cricketer?

  • Total voters
    33
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
Arguably the greatest peak in the history of the game, ATG series vs the best bowlers of the era, the ability to turn matches and series in a session. Arguably one of the top 3 players of fast bowling in history, he dominated WSC, his home and away split, the consistent quality of bowlers faced. His peer rating is off the chart and the vast majority of the bowlers of the era rates him not only the best, but the only one feared.
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Does that really count though?
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
kyear2 said:
@HouHsiaoHsien has made that argument countless times the past few months.

Arguably the greatest peak in the history of the game, ATG series vs the best bowlers of the era, the ability to turn matches and series in a session. Arguably one of the top 3 players of fast bowling in history, he dominated WSC, his home and away split, the consistent quality of bowlers faced. His peer rating is off the chart and the vast majority of the bowlers of the era rates him not only the best, but the only one feared.
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If I am not too wrong, which I believe am not; HHH made those points for him being 3rd, after Sachin and Hobbs.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
If I am not too wrong, which I believe am not; HHH made those points for him being 3rd, after Sachin and Hobbs.
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I have him below Tendulkar and on par with Sobers and ahead of Hobbs.

But the discussion was that I could make the argument he was the best. Sachin was consistent but never touched the heights of ony of the others mentioned, neither Lara. Never dominated a series etc.

I can't see a argument for Murali where Australia, India and Lara isn't an issue.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Okay, my arguments for Murali:
  1. Most Test wickets ever.
  2. The astonishingly high WPM and a very low average for a spinner.
  3. Almost undisputedly the best home bowler of all time, especially important as a player plays half of his matches at home.
  4. Dominated the flat 2000s era.
  5. Played for a very weak side, so no shielding.
  6. Great record in SA, England and West Indies.
  7. Great longevity.
Now, some on defending his detriments. Murali played 4 matches in Australia (not counting that 1 of RoW game, in which he actually took 5 wickets), Viv played 3 in NZ; both crashed hard. He actually had decent reasons for his failures and the intense mental pressure the Aussies created was no small part of it. He had a good series in India in 2005 and dominated those same batsmen at home. While Lara did great against him, Sri Lanka still whitewashed WI in that 2001 series.
 
A

Arachnodouche

International Captain
subshakerz said:
I can looked past Murali against India since he dominated them at home and had at least a moderately good series in India in 2005.

But Murali was pretty anodyne in Aus, especially in 2007 when he toured there. Even a nice fifer there would have made me think he had the tools to be effective everywhere.
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Murali was his usual wicket-taking machine self at home against an ATG Aussie side. Almost enough to look past his poor record in Aus under extreme duress.
 
srbhkshk

srbhkshk

International Captain
kyear2 said:
Sachin was consistent but never touched the heights of ony of the others mentioned, neither Lara. Never dominated a series etc.
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Absolute nonsense. Sachin dominated plenty of series, what he didn't do was cross the arbitrary ass threshold of 500 runs this forum tries to drum up as some meaningful cut-off. Additionally his peak 5 or so years are significantly above Lara.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
srbhkshk said:
Absolute nonsense. Sachin dominated plenty of series, what he didn't do was cross the arbitrary ass threshold of 500 runs this forum tries to drum up as some meaningful cut-off. Additionally his peak 5 or so years are significantly above Lara.
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Yes. Tendulkar doesn't have high-yield series. But he does have great series. Aus 97/98, Aus 2007 and SA 2011 count.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
Yes. But 5 tests is still bare enough.
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4 matches. The other one was for RoW and he did pretty good in that one. Plenty of great bowlers (aka almost all) have one such series where they just can't seem to penetrate. And Murali had plenty of reasons too.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
4 matches. The other one was for RoW and he did pretty good in that one. Plenty of great bowlers (aka almost all) have one such series where they just can't seem to penetrate. And Murali had plenty of reasons too.
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Ok but we can't give a pass on him not performing against the best team of his era in their home.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
Ok but we can't give a pass on him not performing against the best team of his era in their home.
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I get that, but again, he only toured once. Had he toured there twice, I would consider that a much more major issue. For now, the biggest blemish on Murali for me is his record in India, just because he has multiple tours here.
 
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