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Richard Hadlee vs Imran Khan

Who is the better test bowler?

  • Total voters
    29
S

subshakerz

International Coach
kyear2 said:
Atherton, Stewart, Gooch, Smith, Lamb etc was a pretty decent team tbh.
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Yes, aside from playing there as a teen, there really aren't excuses for Wasim underperforming in Eng where he had plenty of experience playing for Lancashire.
 
h_hurricane

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
I don't see an issue with Imran's average of 25 in WI. It came at a great strike rate (though undoubtedly boosted by a weakened batting lineup in 1988).

His overall SR of close to 60 overseas a bit meh though by ATG standards. It is fair enough to take out his debut year and 90s, but that doesn't improve it much. He has 3 ten wicket hauls overseas which is great. Outside that, he has a lot of dry non penetrative spells.

Most top tier ATG bowlers (even the much maligned Ambrose) do better in that aspect.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
h_hurricane said:
I don't see an issue with Imran's average of 25 in WI. It came at a great strike rate (though undoubtedly boosted by a weakened batting lineup in 1988).

His overall SR of close to 60 overseas a bit meh though by ATG standards. It is fair enough to take out his debut year and 90s, but that doesn't improve it much. He has 3 ten wicket hauls overseas which is great. Outside that, he has a lot of dry non penetrative spells.

Most top tier ATG bowlers (even the much maligned Ambrose) do better in that aspect.
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Looks better when we factor in being amongst the best in WSC.

If we exclude debut year and the 90s, he has 47 wickets in 11 tests@23 in England (comparable to Hadlee) and 41 wickets in 8 tests in Aus@27 (excluding two he didn't play as a bowler). Including the WSC (yes, dubious but I think it's fair in this case as he was facing the Aus side in their home grounds) for Aus takes that to 66 wickets in 13 tests@24. Those are all stellar returns given the strength of that lineup.

It is annoying when @kyear2 tries to ignore context and use Imran's records in Eng and Aus against him when they actually boost his case.

I consider Imran in Aus in particular to be one of the most unfairly maligned records. He has a good series, a great series, a poor series and a great WSC there in his bowling prime. He is better in Aus than Marshall for me easily.

Imran didn't perform as well in Ind but to me I don't consider that performance any worse than Ambrose in Pak which everyone gives him a pass on. Essentially one great series, one poor series, overall below par.
 
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kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Bolo. said:
Without considering WPM, 25 as an average against a side that strong in those conditions is very much ATG.

It's going to depend a lot on the circumstances, but 6WPM @ 25 is probably a more valuable bowling performance than 4WPM @ 20.
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Didn't dispute that, that's why it was very good instead of "average" as you referenced.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
h_hurricane said:
I don't see an issue with Imran's average of 25 in WI. It came at a great strike rate (though undoubtedly boosted by a weakened batting lineup in 1988).

His overall SR of close to 60 overseas a bit meh though by ATG standards. It is fair enough to take out his debut year and 90s, but that doesn't improve it much. He has 3 ten wicket hauls overseas which is great. Outside that, he has a lot of dry non penetrative spells.

Most top tier ATG bowlers (even the much maligned Ambrose) do better in that aspect.
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Literally all I've been saying.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Dude, if there was a bowler aside from Imran who was taking 6 wickets a test @45 SR in the best opposition's backyard, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We know what you consider ATG. You were classifying Ambrose taking 13 wickets in 4 tests in SA as ATG based on your reductive blind average approach until you were called out.


There is no agenda any bit as much as I had an anti-India bias (which you yourself called out) for going after Ashwin. I literally rate Hadlee ahead of Imran in this very poll, based on peer rating that I use.
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Imran in WI is definitely ATG considering his WPM and SR, and quality of sides he played. And even if we ignore the first test in 1987 series, he still took 11 wickets in the next 2 matches. His first series there, his average was a bit high, but he was the highest wicket taker. The 1987 series he was purely fabulous. It’s astonishing Imran came out of retirement with three great goals: series wins in India and WI, and the ODI WC, and nearly achieved all of them. He also talks about this incident where had Viv plumb in the second test before Viv made his hundred, that wasn’t given out due to an umpiring error.
 
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