Time for an England white ball rebuild

[GIMH]

Obviously we saw the roots of this in the Caribbean last winter but with the T20 WC following so quickly from the ODI one there wasn’t time for a full root and branch that we may well need across white ball as a whole.

You can’t always strike gold but anyone who follows our domestic game or indeed the franchise circuit will know we have plenty of quality T20 players who aren’t playing for England currently.

50 overs is a lot more difficult because of the much documented failure of our game to actually enable our top talent to play the format.

Anyway, really looking to spark some discussion than necessarily give my own detailed views, I’ve never considered myself the best at identifying emerging talent. That being said, of the current white ball crop…

Keep Jos - whether as captain, I’m unsure. But he’s still batting well enough to be worthy of any side in the world and should still be here come the next two WCs in the formats.

Build the batting around Salt and Brook in both formats.
No more YJB or Moeen in white ball.
Can understand some hesitancy towards him in ODIs, but Livingstone is a huge asset in T20 and there should be no question marks over his Place.
Jury is out on Jacks, I fancy him more in the 50 over game.
Bring Duckett into both white ball sides and persist with Zak in 50 overs.

Bowling wise - hopefully Joffra stays fit. Curran needs a reboot. Topley should stick around. I presume Rashid doesn’t have long left but keep him around and have him work with Rehan. Give Hartley a run.

I need to give more thought to the 50 over side and bowling but will see what others think

Champions Trophy in 18 months and another T20 WC in two years are the short term focus.

ok

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Next T20 WC will be in India , early 2026 so it would make sense to build the team around players with IPL experience.

 

[Molehill]

Jacks should absolutely be part of the T20 side and I'd move him to opener with Salt. Buttler can bat anywhere, but with him, Duckett and Brook, there's a decent middle order should the top fail. I'm not as convinced about Livingstone, his IPL exploits were weak and he really only delivers once in a blue moon with the bat. I'd be more keen to persist with Curran who generally has a far superior record. But we are lacking all rounders - a quick look at the Blast stats and it seems to reveal Tom Curran as the best in this dept, and we kind of know all about him.

I'm not convinced by Topley. He's doing ok, but that's comparing him with some of the rubbish he's replaced. He's not much of a wicket taker and can't seemingly be used at the death.

 

[number11]

The core is still there. Lots of young guys mentioned in OP are all good shouts. The guys lost to a team that looks awesome right now. In white ball cricket, the allout attack approach is worth persisting with. Deffo bring in Jacks, keep Salt, LL and other attacking young talents. Brook is the new main man (or will become).

Rash is done, Rehan must come in if we are building to 2025/6 onwards. He'll need time to settle etc.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

We have lots of old players we need to move on. Whether we do or not is another thing as we just have Bairstow a 3 year central contract.

 

[reyrey]

Rash is done, Rehan must come in if we are building to 2025/6 onwards. He'll need time to settle etc.

I'd try keep Rashid around for another 4 cycle. He's 36, injury free and at the top of his game. With modern day sports science there in no reason why he can't play for another 4 years, assuming he wants to stick around and is willing to put the work in.

Tahir made it to 40 as an international. Warne was still highly successful in the IPL and BBL at 40, similar with Kumble. No need to push Rashid out, plus playing Rehan alongside Rashid would be great for his development.

 

[number11]

^

Extended his career by a year or two seems fine, by 4 years may just stunt the growth of those after him. You need the pressure of being the go to guy to truly emerge. Rehan will not get that if Rash hangs around too long.

 

[reyrey]

^

Extended his career by a year or two seems fine, by 4 years may just stunt the growth of those after him. You need the pressure of being the go to guy to truly emerge. Rehan will not get that if Rash hangs around too long.

There will be plenty of opportunities for Rehan to experience pressure moments given the amount of short form cricket that get plays both domestically and internationally now.

Also Rehan isn't even 20 yet. English players, especially spinners tend to develop slowly anyway. They don't become established players or even make their international debuts until their mid to late 20s.

Rashid debuted at 21, played a handful of games and then wasn't picked again until he was 27.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Rebuilding = extending the 100 to 120

 

[Blenkinsop]

We have plenty of decent batters coming through but the bowling is more of a worry. Most county T20 sides now have a wrist-spinner but not sure any of them is approaching the level where they can be thought of as a potential replacement for Adil Rashid. Our death bowling is poor and I can't think of anyone in county cricket who looks significantly better.

The clock must be ticking pretty loud for Moeen Ali and Chris Jordan.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Livingstone still living off that time he hit the ball over the pavilion.

Dire cricketer.

 

[sledger]

YJB should probably be sacked in all formats now tbh.

 

[chris.hinton]

Lets get players like Bairstow, Jordan, Moeen Ali & Livingstone out the side. Look for new blood and ask Buttler to stand down as skipper and give it to Harry Brook and build a side again. We can do it as we have done it before.

 

[reyrey]

Lets get players like Bairstow, Jordan, Moeen Ali & Livingstone out the side. Look for new blood and ask Buttler to stand down as skipper and give it to Harry Brook and build a side again. We can do it as we have done it before.

Why Livingstone? The rest I can agree on. Livingstones all-round ability becomes even more important with Moeen out of the side.

 

[chris.hinton]

Why Livingstone? The rest I can agree on. Livingstones all-round ability becomes even more important with Moeen out of the side.

What has he brought to the team. He's a bits and pieces cricketer without any real memorable moments. Time to take him out the side

 

[reyrey]

What has he brought to the team. He's a bits and pieces cricketer without any real memorable moments. Time to take him out the side

In T20s he did okay batting wise when he was slightly higher up the order and he's been more than a useful part time bowler. If Bairstow and Moeen are gone, I'd give him an extended run at batting at 4 or 5. (Averages around 30 with an SR well over 150 batting in those positions) ODIs I wouldn't mind if they looked elsewhere.

 

[GIMH]

Mott on his way out apparently.

Key wants Morgan, Morgan doesn’t want it. Broad thinks Flintoff may get it. Jos may move back into the ranks

 

[FBU]

Read the names of Bethell, J Overton and J Smith for the T20s

 

[wpdavid]

Mott on his way out apparently.

Key wants Morgan, Morgan doesn’t want it. Broad thinks Flintoff may get it. Jos may move back into the ranks

Based on what exactly? I read that Morgan wants to spend time with his young family, but surely there's someone available who has some sort of expertise in the white ball game as it's played nowadays.

 

[GIMH]

Based on what exactly? I read that Morgan wants to spend time with his young family, but surely there's someone available who has some sort of expertise in the white ball game as it's played nowadays.

His time with the white ball squad, and then his gig with superchargers this summer being a bit of an audition. Think Broad was just theorising though