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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
But then again, he got plenty of those wickets bowling Orthodox spin.
Most accounts of Voce's career have him mainly switching to pace from 1929 and for basically his whole test career, lowering to medium for the Trinidad matting pitch but otherwise fast-medium. I've seen no indication he took more than maybe his first couple of wickets with slow orthodox, let alone 'plenty' of them.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
Most accounts of Voce's career have him mainly switching to pace from 1929 and for basically his whole test career, lowering to medium for the Trinidad matting pitch but otherwise fast-medium. I've seen no indication he took more than maybe his first couple of wickets with slow orthodox, let alone 'plenty' of them.
I don't remember for sure where, but I had read he bowled SLA mostly outside of Bodyline. And well, 'plenty' covers a wide range.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Most accounts of Voce's career have him mainly switching to pace from 1929 and for basically his whole test career, lowering to medium for the Trinidad matting pitch but otherwise fast-medium. I've seen no indication he took more than maybe his first couple of wickets with slow orthodox, let alone 'plenty' of them.
On a statsguru search for wickets for left arm pace bowler Voce is credited with all his 98 wickets under pace. OTOH, Bill Johnston doesn't make the Aussie statsguru pace search (instead being listed as mixture).
 

Coronis

International Coach
NSW XI (based off first class performances for NSW specifically)

Morris (4462 @ 63.74)
Bardsley (4566 @ 58.53)
Bradman (4924 @ 96.54)
Kippax (6306 @ 67.80)
Bevan (8699 @ 62.13)
Miller* (3370 @ 57.11, 116 @ 25.29)
Haddin+ (5829 @ 41.93)
Davidson (252 @ 21.92)
Lindwall (160 @ 22.13)
Lawson (374 @ 23.54)
O’Reilly (262 @ 16.30)
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
NSW XI (based off first class performances for NSW specifically)

Morris (4462 @ 63.74)
Bardsley (4566 @ 58.53)
Bradman (4924 @ 96.54)
Kippax (6306 @ 67.80)
Bevan (8699 @ 62.13)
Miller* (3370 @ 57.11, 116 @ 25.29)
Haddin+ (5829 @ 41.93)
Davidson (252 @ 21.92)
Lindwall (160 @ 22.13)
Lawson (374 @ 23.54)
O’Reilly (262 @ 16.30)
Is it just me or the stats are a bit too much
 

kyear2

International Coach
NSW XI (based off first class performances for NSW specifically)

Morris (4462 @ 63.74)
Bardsley (4566 @ 58.53)
Bradman (4924 @ 96.54)
Kippax (6306 @ 67.80)
Bevan (8699 @ 62.13)
Miller* (3370 @ 57.11, 116 @ 25.29)
Haddin+ (5829 @ 41.93)
Davidson (252 @ 21.92)
Lindwall (160 @ 22.13)
Lawson (374 @ 23.54)
O’Reilly (262 @ 16.30)
Vs Barbados

Greenidge
Haynes
Worrell
Weekes
Sobers
Nurse
Walcott
Marshall
Garner
Clarke
Hall
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
NSW XI (based off first class performances for NSW specifically)

Morris (4462 @ 63.74)
Bardsley (4566 @ 58.53)
Bradman (4924 @ 96.54)
Kippax (6306 @ 67.80)
Bevan (8699 @ 62.13)
Miller* (3370 @ 57.11, 116 @ 25.29)
Haddin+ (5829 @ 41.93)
Davidson (252 @ 21.92)
Lindwall (160 @ 22.13)
Lawson (374 @ 23.54)
O’Reilly (262 @ 16.30)
NSW XI post-1990 (based on Tests)

Warner
Slater
S.Smith
M.Waugh
S.Waugh
Clarke
Gilchrist (*)
Lee
Clark
MacGill
McGrath

reckon this XI is stronger
 
Last edited:

kyear2

International Coach
The skeleton is almost always the same. It's just the filling out that gets complicated.

1. Hobbs
2.
3. Bradman
4. Tendulkar
5.
6. Sobers
7. Gilchrist
8.
9. Marshall
10.
11.

But even for the legit contenders, not that many options.

2. Hutton / Gavaskar / Richards

5. Richards / Smith / Lara

8. Imran / Hadlee / Steyn

10. Warne / Murali

11. McGrath

And for me Richards, Warne and McGrath are locks.

So basically (for me) the only two positions that's up for grabs is the 2nd opener and 3rd seamer.

Add Kallis, Ambrose, Hammond and Knott to the names above and you have the ultra elite top tier of the sport, the top 22...
 

kyear2

International Coach
I mean Richards over Hammond is a lesser joke.

Besides I’m tired of this brick wall.

But just curious, your last name isn’t coincidentally Richards too is it?
I look at it this way, and it's likely the wrong way but here we are.

If we had training camp matches with Barry, Hutton, Hobbs, Gavaskar competing for the 2nd spot, I just feel like Barry would be the one to show out the best. Think he was the better batsman.

Viv over Hammond isn't a controversial take, in fact the opposite is... Think you and @Prince EWS are literally the only ones here who rate Hammond over IVA
 
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Coronis

International Coach
I look at it this way, and it's likely the wrong way but here we are.

If we had training camp matches with Barry, Hutton, Hobbs, Gavaskar competing for the 2nd spot, I just feel like Barry would be the one to show out the best. Think he was the better batsman.

Viv over Hammond isn't a controversial take, in fact the opposite is... Think you and @Prince EWS are literally the only ones here who rate Hammond over IVA
Yes yes its a joke to me. I know, you know, just let me have my fun.
 

Coronis

International Coach
So, just looking at my personal list of the top 11 for the 100 Greatest voting thread - makes a decent XI minus the lack of spin

Grace
Hobbs
Bradman
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Miller
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall

and looking at the top 11 from the actual voting results… similar except replace lack of spin with lack of keeper

Grace
Hobbs
Bradman
Tendulkar
Richards
Sobers
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
McGrath

Warne would be 13th on my list and Gilchrist was 18th on the voted list.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
So, just looking at my personal list of the top 11 for the 100 Greatest voting thread - makes a decent XI minus the lack of spin

Grace
Hobbs
Bradman
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Miller
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall

and looking at the top 11 from the actual voting results… similar except replace lack of spin with lack of keeper

Grace
Hobbs
Bradman
Tendulkar
Richards
Sobers
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
McGrath

Warne would be 13th on my list and Gilchrist was 18th on the voted list.
I felt Gilchrist got a little underappreciated..... He is also an ATG in ODIs and truly extremely valuable for any team.
 

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