How much did slip cordons affect McGrath's and Wasim's records?

[subshakerz]

To what extent does having an exceptional versus a poor cordon affect the records of these pacers? What would their records look like if they switched cordons?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

One would be better the other would be worse. How much was Wasim benefitting from home umpiring though?

 

[subshakerz]

One would be better the other would be worse. How much was Wasim benefitting from home umpiring though?

Not that much. It was neutral umpires often by the 90s.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Good point from FJ. Home umpiring + ball tampering + slip cordons all normalised, I'd say Wasim career average of ~30, McGrath ~ 20

 

[Coronis]

Question with no answer

 

[OverratedSanity]

More importantly, what would Mcgrath average of he had Aamir Sohail shelling a catch in the slips off his bowling once a week? Would he have continued with his same corridor bowling MO and retained his effectiveness or be forced to bowl a straighter line somewhat negating the advantages his height gave him and blunting the effectiveness of his most prolific mode of dismissal?

 

[kyear2]

This is the peak of nonsense.

But yes, were acknowledging the tremendous impact of slip fielding.

But as two said, ball tampering probably evened it out.

 

[kyear2]

More importantly, what would Mcgrath average of he had Aamir Sohail shelling a catch in the slips off his bowling once a week? Would he have continued with his same corridor bowling MO and retained his effectiveness or be forced to bowl a straighter line somewhat negating the advantages his height gave him and blunting the effectiveness of his most prolific mode of dismissal?

He would not have been as effective, everything you're saying is true.

But what's the point?

 

[OverratedSanity]

He would not have been as effective, everything you're saying is true.

But what's the point?

That he wouldn't have been as effective as he was. Thank you for the admission. It took years of pointless back and forth.

 

[TheJediBrah]

More importantly, what would Mcgrath average of he had Aamir Sohail shelling a catch in the slips off his bowling once a week? Would he have continued with his same corridor bowling MO and retained his effectiveness or be forced to bowl a straighter line somewhat negating the advantages his height gave him and blunting the effectiveness of his most prolific mode of dismissal?

More importantly, what would Wasim average if he didn't have the reverse swing and guaranteed lbws, and played on bouncier wickets? Would he have continued with his same attack the stumps bowling and retained his effectiveness or be forced to bowl a wider line somewhat negating the advantages his swing gave him and blunting the effectiveness of his most prolific mode of dismissal?

but yeah clearly this is a braindead idea for a thread

 

[OverratedSanity]

More importantly, what would Wasim average if he didn't have the reverse swing and guaranteed lbws, and played on bouncier wickets? Would he have continued with his same attack the stumps bowling and retained his effectiveness or be forced to bowl a wider line somewhat negating the advantages his swing gave him and blunting the effectiveness of his most prolific mode of dismissal?

Please take it to the what would wasim average without ball tampering thread

 

[kyear2]

So serious response.

Yes it impacted Wasim's career, but I don't value Wasim on raw numbers.

His proportionally high tail end wickets, struggled against all of the better teams.

He wasn't as effective a bowler as his skills should have dictated.

Was some of that the cordon, yes. His diabetes yes. But not all of it.

 

[srbhkshk]

To what extent does having an exceptional versus a poor cordon affect the records of these pacers? What would their records look like if they switched cordons?

Wasim - 20 , McGrath - 35

 

[srbhkshk]

Wasim - 20 , McGrath - 35

Actually scratch that, Wasim was a magician with the ball so Wasim - 17 , McGrath - 35.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Good point from FJ. Home umpiring + ball tampering + slip cordons all normalised, I'd say Wasim career average of ~30, McGrath ~ 20

I mean, McGrath also had pretty decent support at home.... Don't again want to bring up the 1999 Sachin outs

 

[Bolo.]

Not that much. It was neutral umpires often by the 90s.

1 neutral, one home.

I've got no idea if Pak home umpires were dodgy in the era though. I can't actually remember any umpires cheating besides AUS.

 

[kyear2]

That he wouldn't have been as effective as he was. Thank you for the admission. It took years of pointless back and forth.

Most of the great ones had tremendous cordons, were taking away from each of them?

It's part of the game, Bradman played on pancakes and didn't face any great bowlers and feasted on minnows.

Headley only played teams better than his with not even 1st class worthy teammates.

Sachin played on feather beds at home, and the back end of his career, strong batting support and minnows to boot.


Australia prioritized great fielding and great catching, and we're doing to penalize him for it?

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's part of the game, Bradman played on pancakes and didn't face any great bowlers and feasted on minnows.

Actually you yourself do penalize Bradman for this lmao

 

[kyear2]

I mean, McGrath also had pretty decent support at home.... Don't again want to bring up the 1999 Sachin outs

Aussie umps?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Aussie umps?

I think especially that 99 tour and those great Aussie umps have been discussed here on more than a few occasions.