Best Attack

[subshakerz]

I'm saying something a bit like this. Runs count from any position. And we have seen a lot of tests saved by a 10/11 hanging on.

Picking between 2 actual 11s, its not likely to make any real difference, and unless the choice is something crazy like Pommie Mbangwa vs Symcox, batting quality is highly unlikely to play a role in who I would pick.

But picking Mcgrath over Imran because you can 'afford a number 11' does a lot more damage to your batting at positions 8 and 9 than it does at 11. And I do consider Marshalls batting to be a factor. I reckon he's the best bowler, but I would consider Mcgrath a better player if you swapped their batting abilities.

I agree with all that except factoring in Marshalls batting being good enough to be a factor to make him a better cricketer than McGrath. Though on second thought I may have to rethink the cumulative effect of being a quality tailender vs a bunny.

 

[Bolo.]

I agree with all that except factoring in Marshalls batting being good enough to be a factor to make him a better cricketer than McGrath. Though on second thought I may have to rethink the cumulative effect of being a quality tailender vs a bunny.

I think Marshall is better without bringing batting into it (although Mcgrath had a greater career).

They are very close though. I've got no problem with either of them (or Hadlee) being named top. So I just tend to rank them by batting ability.

 

[kyear2]

I'm saying something a bit like this. Runs count from any position. And we have seen a lot of tests saved by a 10/11 hanging on.

Picking between 2 actual 11s, its not likely to make any real difference, and unless the choice is something crazy like Pommie Mbangwa vs Symcox, batting quality is highly unlikely to play a role in who I would pick.

But picking Mcgrath over Imran because you can 'afford a number 11' does a lot more damage to your batting at positions 8 and 9 than it does at 11. And I do consider Marshalls batting to be a factor. I reckon he's the best bowler, but I would consider Mcgrath a better player if you swapped their batting abilities.

@subshakerz I accept your apology.

 

[kyear2]

Except you literally said the opposite and said you would select Steyn over Hadlee.

This is how I know you just love to argue, I acquiesce and say there's nothing to argue about, yet you would search for something to argue about.

Yes, it's my personal preference, and for quite a few reasons, all of which I've mentioned earlier, and none of which require your approval.

This argument also shows the blinders you wear during these arguments (re bolo). You miss context and just want to be right.

 

[subshakerz]

@subshakerz I accept your apology.

Yes I stand corrected. He has more of a maximalist take than myself. I looked back several pages and I saw the quote of his I missed before.

This is how I know you just love to argue, I acquiesce and say there's nothing to argue about, yet you would search for something to argue about.

Lol ok I accept your acquiescence.

 

[kyear2]

I'm saying something a bit like this. Runs count from any position. And we have seen a lot of tests saved by a 10/11 hanging on.

Picking between 2 actual 11s, its not likely to make any real difference, and unless the choice is something crazy like Pommie Mbangwa vs Symcox, batting quality is highly unlikely to play a role in who I would pick.

But picking Mcgrath over Imran because you can 'afford a number 11' does a lot more damage to your batting at positions 8 and 9 than it does at 11. And I do consider Marshalls batting to be a factor. I reckon he's the best bowler, but I would consider Mcgrath a better player if you swapped their batting abilities.

No you're picking him because he's a much better bowler.

Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[subshakerz]

No you're picking him because he's a much better bowler.

Ok so to clarify, in terms of perceived ATG match impact, what does that bowling difference practically translate to that makes it more than what Imran gives with late end batting support?

 

[Bolo.]

No you're picking him because he's a much better bowler.

Just wanted to make that clear.

Glad you cleared that up.

I thought you were picking him for his charming personality.

 

[kyear2]

Ok so to clarify, in terms of perceived ATG match impact, what does that bowling difference practically translate to that makes it more than what Imran gives with late end batting support?

1. I want my best two bowlers opening the attack, in this instance they also compliment each other perfectly. This leads to more changes being created, and in tandem more wickets.
2. I, and I would imagine quite a few, don't rate Imran the bowler as highly as you. I personally don't believe he's comparable to McGrath, and you are well aware of the reasons why.
3. Imran's batting numbers are really soft and I personally don't see a consistent or great impact being made by him or any of the lower order barsmen in a series or in a home and away scenario. You once said you see him possibly playing out an innings to secure possibly a draw, I would conceded that. But I can also see any of Hadlee or Marshall doing the same.

From neither perspective I see him being a fit, besides possibly providing inswing as a contrast to the others.

In a low scoring match where the others struggle, and I mean, Bradman, Hobbs, Sobers, Tendulkar etc, I don't see him being the shining Knight to save the game. In high scoring ones, the others will plunder well before his time around.

I know you and a couple others believe it's some ingrained malice, but if you look back on my posts from even 10 years ago, he was on my team. So unless I've visited the country and developed a political affinity for his opponents, that's not there.

If you objectively looked at his numbers the way you do Lara's you will see the same.

And in no way am I saying the man isn't an ATG great or among the greatest to ever do it. But like Lara I don't see either in the first team. Hardly a slight.

 

[kyear2]

Glad you cleared that up.

I thought you were picking him for his charming personality.

Think he was overly combative and a bit of a dick on the field, so probably not

 

[Coronis]

1. I want my best two bowlers opening the attack, in this instance they also compliment each other perfectly. This leads to more changes being created, and in tandem more wickets.
2. I, and I would imagine quite a few, don't rate Imran the bowler as highly as you. I personally don't believe he's comparable to McGrath, and you are well aware of the reasons why.
3. Imran's batting numbers are really soft and I personally don't see a consistent or great impact being made by him or any of the lower order barsmen in a series or in a home and away scenario. You once said you see him possibly playing out an innings to secure possibly a draw, I would conceded that. But I can also see any of Hadlee or Marshall doing the same.

From neither perspective I see him being a fit, besides possibly providing inswing as a contrast to the others.

In a low scoring match where the others struggle, and I mean, Bradman, Hobbs, Sobers, Tendulkar etc, I don't see him being the shining Knight to save the game. In high scoring ones, the others will plunder well before his time around.

I know you and a couple others believe it's some ingrained malice, but if you look back on my posts from even 10 years ago, he was on my team. So unless I've visited the country and developed a political affinity for his opponents, that's not there.

If you objectively looked at his numbers the way you do Lara's you will see the same.

And in no way am I saying the man isn't an ATG great or among the greatest to ever do it. But like Lara I don't see either in the first team. Hardly a slight.

Ur just mad he became PM right? That’s what really changed

 

[kyear2]

Ur just mad he became PM right? That’s what really changed

I don't even know exactly when that happened tbh.

I know literally nothing about his political views nor agenda.

 

[Coronis]

I don't even know exactly when that happened tbh.

I know literally nothing about his political views nor agenda.

Don’t worry mate, I’m kidding.

 

[kyear2]

Don’t worry mate, I’m kidding.

I know, it's all good man. Lol

 

[Coronis]

I know, it's all good man. Lol

Yeah, but don’t worry.

 

[ankitj]

Yes, 100 times, yes.

Posters like @kyear2 are so obsessed with this idea of hallowed rankings they they assume it becomes some massive differential between bowlers. It really is just slight, slight differences that won't matter as much as having a good 20-30 runs an innings in a tight ATG game.

Except he will say, 'my ranking system puts McGrath as number 2 with automatically boosts him 40 points in overall analysis'.

If they were to play out their careers all over again, I wouldn't even bet my money that McGrath will have a better bowling career than Imran. It's that marginal. I would definitely put my money on who would have a better batting career (no-brainer).