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*Official* Pakistan in England 4 T20is

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
My (presumably cold) take is this makes you question the value of Azam Khan.

View attachment 40402

Man has more dismissals than fours in 12 appearances.
People don't like him for the aforementioned terrible international performances, his questionable keeping at times and batting at international level, but he's earned his chance.

Including his terrible t20I performances since the start of 2022 he's made 2000 runs @27.5 and a SR of 150. Has been one of, if not the best Middle order bats in the PSL for a while now.
 

Chin Music

State Vice-Captain
My only take after watching a portion of the two games that actually took place is that Pakistani nepotism is alive and kicking. How on earth otherwise do you pick Azam, and as a keeper too? The TV made a point of not mentioning his size. However, on a couple of my WhatsApp cricket mate threads, let's just say we couldn't help ourselves......
 

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
I'm a little surprised at how confident some of the other England posters are here off the back of two home matches against an out-of-sorts Pakistan. I feel like we've mostly not been great in T20Is this past cycle?

Archer coming back is a huge plus I guess, if he can stay fit we've got a shot.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I'm a little surprised at how confident some of the other England posters are here off the back of two home matches against an out-of-sorts Pakistan. I feel like we've mostly not been great in T20Is this past cycle?

Archer coming back is a huge plus I guess, if he can stay fit we've got a shot.
This is probably the first time we’ve fielded our strongest side since…I don’t know when tbh as even the side that won the WC wasn’t that.

The batting line up is fire. Archer and Wood enough said. Rashid bowling as well as ever. We should go deep.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
My only take after watching a portion of the two games that actually took place is that Pakistani nepotism is alive and kicking. How on earth otherwise do you pick Azam, and as a keeper too? The TV made a point of not mentioning his size. However, on a couple of my WhatsApp cricket mate threads, let's just say we couldn't help ourselves......
His tires have tires. That level of visceral fat is not good, whatever his stats may say. Boards around the world turning a blind eye to obese cricketers under their wardship should be ashamed.
 

Chin Music

State Vice-Captain
His tires have tires. That level of visceral fat is not good, whatever his stats may say. Boards around the world turning a blind eye to obese cricketers under their wardship should be ashamed.
Oh, he may have a reasonable record in domestic t20 for sure, but after 13 games in internationals, he is not averaging double figures, and that's before you get to his wicket-keeping,. That was embarrassing last night from him.

Re England, it appears to me that we are probably one good bowler short, and that is probably in the spin department. Pakistan fans I know, always mention nepotism with selections and they can't be impressed with this one.

On the old forum I used to be on, Samit Patel took a fair bashing for his weight at times, although he didn't have family who used to play for England!
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
His tires have tires. That level of visceral fat is not good, whatever his stats may say. Boards around the world turning a blind eye to obese cricketers under their wardship should be ashamed.
At the end of the day his job is too make runs in the middle order at a fast SR. He's done that better than pretty much anyone else in pakistan over a large sample for going on three years now. He's not a great fielder, and maybe his weight plays a part in that, but as an Australian fan Adam Zampa and Tim David are just as bad in the field and there way slimmer than he is. Not every cricketer needs to be sub 15% BF to do there job FFS. The strongest lifter's in the world look like this:
1717161703321.png
and this:
1717161784867.png

If being at his weight let's him clear the fence and make runs, what's the problem? The difference between David, and Azam Khan isn't there weight, it's the fact that the latter averages 10 in T20I, while the former averages 40 at a better SR. No need to bring him weight into it.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
At the end of the day his job is too make runs in the middle order at a fast SR. He's done that better than pretty much anyone else in pakistan over a large sample for going on three years now. He's not a great fielder, and maybe his weight plays a part in that, but as an Australian fan Adam Zampa and Tim David are just as bad in the field and there way slimmer than he is. Not every cricketer needs to be sub 15% BF to do there job FFS. The strongest lifter's in the world look like this:
View attachment 40405
and this:
View attachment 40406

If being at his weight let's him clear the fence and make runs, what's the problem? The difference between David, and Azam Khan isn't there weight, it's the fact that the latter averages 10 in T20I, while the former averages 40 at a better SR. No need to bring him weight into it.
The strongest lifters on the planet are on ridiculous amounts of PEDs though and moreover are not under the aegis of organizations that purport to caring for the wellbeing of its athletes (besides you'd be surprised at how low a bodyfat % Bolton and Thor are carrying there despite their mass). Not to mention their size is directly related to moving the huge numbers they do. No one can say Azam, Sarfaraz, or Cornwall wouldn't be better cricketers than they already are if they lost some weight.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
The strongest lifters on the planet are on ridiculous amounts of PEDs though and moreover are not under the aegis of organizations that purport to caring for the wellbeing of its athletes (besides you'd be surprised at how low a bodyfat % Bolton and Thor are carrying there despite their mass). Not to mention their size is directly related to moving the huge numbers they do. No one can say Azam, Sarfaraz, or Cornwall wouldn't be better cricketers than they already are if they lost some weight.
Where's the actual research that indicates this? There's plenty of fielders and keepers worse than Azam on the international circuit who are way thinner. To quote Azam Khan's trainer, who I think understands this stuff: "I know an athlete should look like an athlete but Azam falls in a heavyweight category. Unfortunately, there are no divisions in cricket like other sports such as boxing and UFC. His weight helps him generate power"

"You like Azam's sixers, his strike rate and his potential to take over the game within no time. All of that comes from his size and strength.

"I am not saying Azam doesn't need to get fit. If I give you the example of Rizwan and Shan, they are super fit and it helps them remain consistent. In Azam's case, there is a difference as he is heavy weight since childhood."

His ability to do his main job in cricket, IE: making fast runs at a decent average in the middle order, is reliant on his strength, and he's done that brilliantly at domestic level for years. His issue is not translating his domestic performances to international level, and I see nothing that says that's a result of his weight.
 

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Where's the actual research that indicates this? There's plenty of fielders and keepers worse than Azam on the international circuit who are way thinner. To quote Azam Khan's trainer, who I think understands this stuff: "I know an athlete should look like an athlete but Azam falls in a heavyweight category. Unfortunately, there are no divisions in cricket like other sports such as boxing and UFC. His weight helps him generate power"

"You like Azam's sixers, his strike rate and his potential to take over the game within no time. All of that comes from his size and strength.

"I am not saying Azam doesn't need to get fit. If I give you the example of Rizwan and Shan, they are super fit and it helps them remain consistent. In Azam's case, there is a difference as he is heavy weight since childhood."

His ability to do his main job in cricket, IE: making fast runs at a decent average in the middle order, is reliant on his strength, and he's done that brilliantly at domestic level for years. His issue is not translating his domestic performances to international level, and I see nothing that says that's a result of his weight.
Bro the bloke can't run a double to save his life. That's because of his weight. He could hit sixes while still being able run 2s in under 5 business days if weighed less. You can't expect him to look like Kohli and he shouldn't but there's a huge middle ground between that Walmart American which would allow him to be better at cricket than he is right now.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
"You like Azam's sixers, his strike rate and his potential to take over the game within no time. All of that comes from his size and strength."

Yeah, I wouldn't put much credence in what anyone behind the scenes in Pakistan has to say. Plenty of lean guys out there who do better than him in all those aspects.

"His issue is not translating his domestic performances to international level, and I see nothing that says that's a result of his weight."

But surely there's a huge step-up to the international level and things that were not as egregious before will eventually get brutally exposed. Man, as anyone who's ever been fat can vouch for, weight affects breathing, reflexes, quality of movement, etc. All those things matter in cricket, especially now that the game is more professional than ever.
 

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Anyway, glad we didn't take any back up batsmen to the WC. Iftikhar is the biggest fraud in this team who flies under the radar for some reason. Bloke can only hit medium paced half volleys on leg.
 

number11

State Regular
As much as I love a good Eng fanboi.......not sure I can cope with Hinton and number11 in tandem!!
No such thing. I am quite neutral when it comes to cricket and analysis. The facts are this: England have an incredible white ball side - one of the great ones and have for a few years. They may not win this particular cup as an off day can always happen, but they are always going to be serious contenders in 20 or 50 over cricket going forward. Pakistan look like a bad club side: batting is so bad lads from the local sunday pub league are technically superior.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
I don't understand why England are suddenly world beaters after beating Pakistan. This Pakistani team were lucky to escape with a drawn series at home against NZ C a couple of months ago.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I don't understand why England are suddenly world beaters after beating Pakistan. This Pakistani team were lucky to escape with a drawn series at home against NZ C a couple of months ago.
Well we are the world champs and we have good T20 players so y’know
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
This is probably the first time we’ve fielded our strongest side since…I don’t know when tbh as even the side that won the WC wasn’t that.

The batting line up is fire. Archer and Wood enough said. Rashid bowling as well as ever. We should go deep.
I think we're looking reasonable, but I also think we're looking at a big drop in quality after the top 5, so I'm not sure what happens if we lose a few wickets cheaply at the start of the innings. It strikes me that we have three number 8s coming in after Brook. And not all of the top 5 are fully established at this level in this format of the game, talented though they are. Perhaps I'm guilty of ignoring (as in not having a clue about) what Salt, Jacks and Brook have been dloing in the IPL and other franchises around the world tbf.

The bowling, otoh, looks pretty good to me, so I don't go along with the view that we need to be scoring 250 to be safe; especially with Archer back in the fold. Obviously that does depend on Wood and Archer staying fit. And I don't concur with the view expressed somewhere on this page that our spinners are weak. Rashid's great in this format, Moeen's OK and even Livingstone's usually worth a couple of overs.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I think we're looking reasonable, but I also think we're looking at a big drop in quality after the top 5, so I'm not sure what happens if we lose a few wickets cheaply at the start of the innings. It strikes me that we have three number 8s coming in after Brook. And not all of the top 5 are fully established at this level in this format of the game, talented though they are. Perhaps I'm guilty of ignoring (as in not having a clue about) what Salt, Jacks and Brook have been dloing in the IPL and other franchises around the world tbf.

The bowling, otoh, looks pretty good to me, so I don't go along with the view that we need to be scoring 250 to be safe; especially with Archer back in the fold. Obviously that does depend on Wood and Archer staying fit. And I don't concur with the view expressed somewhere on this page that our spinners are weak. Rashid's great in this format, Moeen's OK and even Livingstone's usually worth a couple of overs.
Obviously I’m a fan, but Salt is the real deal in T20 for me. The ability for him and Jos to get us off to flyers will take us far. Jacks still has a bit to prove but the ability seems to be there. YJB is back in form and his short form credentials speak for themselves. I guess there’s still a bit for Brook to prove in white ball but his recent outings in the three lions show him to be an adept finisher. It’s a very exciting batting line up for me. Feel you’re a tad harsh calling Livingstone an 8, though with both he and Moeen I suppose you’re as likely to get a 0 as you are something explosive.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Obviously I’m a fan, but Salt is the real deal in T20 for me. The ability for him and Jos to get us off to flyers will take us far. Jacks still has a bit to prove but the ability seems to be there. YJB is back in form and his short form credentials speak for themselves. I guess there’s still a bit for Brook to prove in white ball but his recent outings in the three lions show him to be an adept finisher. It’s a very exciting batting line up for me. Feel you’re a tad harsh calling Livingstone an 8, though with both he and Moeen I suppose you’re as likely to get a 0 as you are something explosive.
I suppose I'm just basing that on what I've seen from Livingstone at this level.

As for Salt, it would help if I'd taken any interest at all in the IPL. There have been a few passing comments about how well he did there, so maybe this is his time after all.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I suppose I'm just basing that on what I've seen from Livingstone at this level.

As for Salt, it would help if I'd taken any interest at all in the IPL. There have been a few passing comments about how well he did there, so maybe this is his time after all.
Did his back to back tons in the Caribbean not persuade you?
 

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