The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Coronis]

they can learn so please show the bowlers who were better than Imran, Wasim and Waqar at that reverse swing craft and we can include them in an All time XI.
Accumulated Knowledge should become Practically Applicable Knowledge. Warne was a master of Leg spin so please show me a bowler better than warne we are happy to include that player as there is lot of accumulated knowledge about leg spin as well.

He didn’t say better. He said learn how. Similar to how multiple leg spinners bowl googlies now. Or multiple offspinners bowl doosras now. Multiple bowlers do bowl with reverse swing now. Stop trying to twist everyone’s words into personal attacks on specific players.

 

[CricketFan90s]

He didn’t say better. He said learn how. Similar to how multiple leg spinners bowl googlies now. Or multiple offspinners bowl doosras now. Multiple bowlers do bowl with reverse swing now. Stop trying to twist everyone’s words into personal attacks on specific players.

excuse me. I know what he said and I didn't point out any mistakes in his statement. I just said the logic is applicable to Warne and Imran equally as part of the ongoing debate.

 

[Coronis]

excuse me. I know what he said and I didn't point out any mistakes in his statement. I just said the logic is applicable to Warne and Imran equally as part of the ongoing debate.

You literally said they should be better lol.

Its like trying to argue that because we have players switch hitting now they should be better than Bradman.

 

[CricketFan90s]

You literally said they should be better lol.

Its like trying to argue that because we have players switch hitting now they should be better than Bradman.

you are arguing quite opposite to what I am saying. Do you understand English ?

@Line and Length - Everyone has an Opinion and they put forward that. The only problem is you are unable to digest my opinion and I have practically given lot of points why my opinion is more closer to facts than a couple of people like @Coronis or @kyear2. So if you are really giving a convincing argument then there is a scope for healthy discussion but actually people like you who is cluttering this thread.

It was not a One Dimensional Argument - just look back at the discussion you see lot of practical inputs that I provided to support my opinion.
It is just that you have a bunch of friends who tries to control this thread and others should listen blindly to their opinion.

Someone blocked me to reply in this thread that's very unsportsmanlike like behavior.

 

[Line and Length]

@CricketFan90s You have an opinion that you see as fact and argue against the opinions of others. Much of these arguments simply go around in circles while achieving nothing.
This thread was one of the more interesting threads in that it provided a variety of opinions and points of view. Your constant labouring of one point has become tedious and is cluttering a valuable CW thread. Time for you to take a break from your one dimensional posting.

 

[Prince EWS]

Afuera.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Thanks for those trying to get things back on track.

How about we change topic for a while? !!!!

With the World T20 around the corner, how about ATG T20 sides?

This is my NZ combo

Guptill
B McCullum
Conway
Munro
Phillips
Anderson
M Bracewell
Vettori (Santner & Sodhi unlucky)
Southee
Bond
Ferguson

 

[kyear2]

@kyear2 has no guts to respond to me, just avoiding all the logical points I put forward. He is like @Coronis has some personal beliefs and they put forward those belief system as rational argument.

I don't respond to you because you post a lot of race based nationalistic **** and as such I ignore you.

Which almost everyone was until you started agreeing with them.

 

[kyear2]

you will never understand how to do a logical argument leave it.

You make everything about race and nationality and if anyone disagrees with you they're biased against them because..... It honestly horrible and I wish you would stop.

 

[Red]

Wasim is the perfect 3rd quick in a World ATG XI.

Marshall and McGrath are a level above others, so they get in immediately.

Wasim provides old ball bowling ability with left arm variety. Plus some decent intimidation.

It’s a no brainer for me, if I wanted to select a team to win a series.

 

[Qlder]

Thanks for those trying to get things back on track.

How about we change topic for a while? !!!!

With the World T20 around the corner, how about ATG T20 sides?

Finch
Warner
Watson
Maxwell
Marsh
Symonds
Wade
Johnson
Starc
Zampa
Hazlewood

 

[kyear2]

Wasim is the perfect 3rd quick in a World ATG XI.

Marshall and McGrath are a level above others, so they get in immediately.

Wasim provides old ball bowling ability with left arm variety. Plus some decent intimidation.

It’s a no brainer for me, if I wanted to select a team to win a series.

Yes, Marshall and McGrath is a level above, but unless it's Hadlee, the 3rd one is a drop off, it's just to chose the best one.

They all have different intangibles.

Hadlee, just the best of the lot, lacked the experience of bowling reverse.

Steyn was just relentless and aggressive. His strike rate and record in India just stand out.

Wasim had the unrivalled variety and ability to move the ball. Didn't always reflect in his results.

Imran quite frankly was the best batsman, inswing would contrast with outswing the others provide.

Pretty much the only position that stumps me as all the others are pretty much set, in stone even.

Who helps the team best get to 20 wickets in all and any conditions.

 

[Bolo.]

Yes, Marshall and McGrath is a level above, but unless it's Hadlee, the 3rd one is a drop off, it's just to chose the best one.

They all have different intangibles.

Hadlee, just the best of the lot, lacked the experience of bowling reverse.

Steyn was just relentless and aggressive. His strike rate and record in India just stand out.

Wasim had the unrivalled variety and ability to move the ball. Didn't always reflect in his results.

Imran quite frankly was the best batsman, inswing would contrast with outswing the others provide.

Pretty much the only position that stumps me as all the others are pretty much set, in stone even.

Who helps the team best get to 20 wickets in all and any conditions.

The guys who score enough runs to ensure the team has a target to bowl at.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

@CricketFan90s You have an opinion that you see as fact and argue against the opinions of others. Much of these arguments simply go around in circles while achieving nothing.
This thread was one of the more interesting threads in that it provided a variety of opinions and points of view. Your constant labouring of one point has become tedious and is cluttering a valuable CW thread. Time for you to take a break from your one dimensional posting.

L&L Own Zone

 

[subshakerz]

Yes, Marshall and McGrath is a level above, but unless it's Hadlee, the 3rd one is a drop off, it's just to chose the best one.

They all have different intangibles.

Hadlee, just the best of the lot, lacked the experience of bowling reverse.

Steyn was just relentless and aggressive. His strike rate and record in India just stand out.

Wasim had the unrivalled variety and ability to move the ball. Didn't always reflect in his results.

Imran quite frankly was the best batsman, inswing would contrast with outswing the others provide.

Pretty much the only position that stumps me as all the others are pretty much set, in stone even.

Who helps the team best get to 20 wickets in all and any conditions.

Would you be willing to rotate the new ball between Steyn and McGrath?

 

[Qlder]

Hadlee, just the best of the lot, lacked the experience of bowling reverse.

Well I've heard it all now. Hadlee being marked down for lack of experience bowling reverse. The only player I know of that bowled reverse in his era was Imran and he later admitted he used a bottle cap on the ball to do it lol

That's like saying Viv Richards would be a horrible T20 player as he had no experience. ..

 

[kyear2]

The guys who score enough runs to ensure the team has a target to bowl at.

Yes, your no. 8 is going to be the one to save the, sorry, this batting line up.

When I first decided to build a squad rather than just a straight XI, I decided that Hadlee would make the squad, because if the batting struggled and McGrath was a liability that Hadlee would be able to come in. Then I realized how ridiculous that was, your batting is struggling so we're going to replace your no 11.

I just argued with Capt Luffy for a couple days about choosing Miller for an Australian XI, I can't get how bowling could be the primary concern for you no. 6 batsman, who may hardly get a bowl as the 5th option.

But I realised that it wasn't about philosophy, it's just about putting in as many all rounders as possible. So everything's getting weakened with no direct pay off.

We get caught up with names. We have 8 bowlers to chose from, and you're going to chose the 8th among them because he could bat? Somehow bowling matters more for your 5th bowler than the 3rd.

With this batting line up, and the desire to take 20 wickets vs a strong team, we're going batting first?

Convince me he's the best bowling option for everywhere.

 

[kyear2]

Well I've heard it all now. Hadlee being marked down for lack of experience bowling reverse. The only player I know of that bowled reverse in his era was Imran and he later admitted he used a bottle cap on the ball to do it lol

That's like saying Viv Richards would be a horrible T20 player as he had no experience. ..

I don't doubt Hadlee is the best option, by some distance really. But the argument was that reverse would be a vital tool in modern cricket.

I also asked earlier in the thread, if this isn't something great bowlers could pick up in a two week camp. Even Imran said every teenager in Pakistan can reverse it

 

[bagapath]

A T20 XI made up of cricketers who played from 1985 to 2005 but didn't participate in T20s

Viv Richards
Greenidge
Miandad
De Silva
Imran
Botham
Kapil
Dujon +
Hadlee
Akram
Garner

 

[subshakerz]

I don't doubt Hadlee is the best option, by some distance really. But the argument was that reverse would be a vital tool in modern cricket.

I also asked earlier in the thread, if this isn't something great bowlers could pick up in a two week camp. Even Imran said every teenager in Pakistan can reverse it

To clarify, reverse was known in Pakistan, even Waqar admits that he didn't need Imran to tell.him about it. But perfecting it isn't something you can just learn in a boot camp. There was a reason Aqib Javed wouldn't reverse it despite being under Imran's wing for so long.