What would an ATG game really look like?

[subshakerz]

The concept isn't bad, but to guess the exact numbers is a bit speculative.

It was meant as a conversation starter. I don't claim they are set in stone.

 

[subshakerz]

Lame - as if bowlers would average less against ATG teams than their career averages.

this is yet another forum for Subz to baselessly tout his biases

Wouldn't the bats average average less?

 

[subshakerz]

Lara's last series in Australia, he was inconsistent and faced several dubious umpiring decisions. Nevertheless he still managed to average 50+ vs the raw pace of Lee, + the greatness of Warne and McGrath.

Lee was wayward.

 

[Coronis]

I thought we recently established both batsmen and bowlers would average worse than their career averages.

 

[ataraxia]

Yes guys McGrath is definitely going to average 18 against Hobbs–Bradman–Viv–Smith.

 

[shortpitched713]

Well batsman won't have weaker bowlers to target either or just "seeing off" the quality bowler, because quality is replaced by quality. That's probably more important than the point you made about bowlers having no weaker batsmen to target.

The best bowlers like McGrath actually always made a point of targetting the strongest batsman and succeeding.

I think the batsmen on this match would accumulate runs with less risk than their "normal" approach to normal bowling, but generally end up with a higher total. They wouldn't end up averaging much as they usually do, but that's not the barometer. They just need to average more than an average international specialist bat. I think with their skills and extraordinary reflexes they end up doing it. And the total aggregate innings score ends up being higher.

 

[Slifer]

Lee was wayward.

Lee took 18 wkts at 21 in that 3 test series. Coincidentally, the most by any bowler including Warne and McGrath....

 

[reyrey]

I think the batsmen on this match would accumulate runs with less risk than their "normal" approach to normal bowling, but generally end up with a higher total. They wouldn't end up averaging much as they usually do, but that's not the barometer. They just need to average more than an average international specialist bat. I think with their skills and extraordinary reflexes they end up doing it. And the total aggregate innings score ends up being higher.

But they will also be facing bowlers with immense skill, stamina and guile.

You see typically a ATG bowler in a normal Test doesn't bowl close to 100% effort because they know they will probably have a big workload due to being the only ATG in the team, so they tend to hold a little back.

In ATG V ATG games this won't be the case. You have 4 bowlers with immense skill, stamina and guile, plus a good 5th bowler so these ATG bowlers don't need to worry as much about holding anything back.

Do you think batsman would rather face Ambrose bowling an 8 over spell at 88mph or a 5 over spell bowling at 95mph?

 

[centurymaker]

Most Batsmen would average 35-40
Most Bowlers would average 26-29

Average innings score 260-290.

 

[Athlai]

They'd probably be quite irritated that you used a time machine and experience a great deal of mental trauma in finding out about their futures/how they die etc etc

The cricket would be pretty crap imo.

 

[kyear2]

We can use either of two potential match ups.

PEWS XI
Hutton
Gavaskar
Hammond^
Tendulkar
Lara^
Sobers^ (5)
Gilchrist+
Imran* (3)
Warne (4)
Ambrose (2)
McGrath (1)

Kyear XI
Hobbs
Richards^
Bradman*
Richards^
Smith
Kallis^ (5)
Knott+
Hadlee (2)
Marshall (1)
Steyn (3)
Muralitharan (4)

I did change up 2 names .....

Which team wins though?

 

[Victor Ian]

McGrath liked to call out the best batsman in the Oppo and work them over and it generally worked. In this series, I think he'd call out the top 6, work them over and average 19.96.
He'd also announc 5-0 at the beginning of the series. Legend!

 

[subshakerz]

I thought we recently established both batsmen and bowlers would average worse than their career averages.

There isn't a consensus on this at all. Some believe the bats would average more,.others the bowlers.

 

[h_hurricane]

My team will beat the hell out of both the teams. Remember the impact ratios.

Alec Stewart
Clyde Walcott
Kumar Sangakkara
Andy Flower
AB de Villiers
Rishabh Pant
Les Ames
Jeff Dujon
Ian Healy
Wasim Bari
Godfrey Evans

 

[ma1978]

My view is that this would be highly conditions dependent

the bats would perform in an exaggerated way on batter friendly tracks

bowlers would perform in an exaggerated way on bowler friendly tracks

the team with Bradman wins more often than not

 

[h_hurricane]

But they will also be facing bowlers with immense skill, stamina and guile.

You see typically a ATG bowler in a normal Test doesn't bowl close to 100% effort because they know they will probably have a big workload due to being the only ATG in the team, so they tend to hold a little back.

In ATG V ATG games this won't be the case. You have 4 bowlers with immense skill, stamina and guile, plus a good 5th bowler so these ATG bowlers don't need to worry as much about holding anything back.

Do you think batsman would rather face Ambrose bowling an 8 over spell at 88mph or a 5 over spell bowling at 95mph?

This is what happened with 80s WI team and they all averaged 21-24. Were up against plenty of mediocre batsmen as well. Here they will be up against some of the very best in history and I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that the ATG bowlers will average about the same.

 

[Bolo.]

McGrath liked to call out the best batsman in the Oppo and work them over and it generally worked. In this series, I think he'd call out the top 6, work them over and average 19.96.
He'd also announc 5-0 at the beginning of the series. Legend!

He called out some of the best top order bats. It generally worked cos he's the new ball GOAT. He's generally going to be succeeding against any player from the top order. More so when he picks a player not so well equiped to deal with his style.

It was mind games. We don't know if it had any impact.

 

[subshakerz]

My view is that this would be highly conditions dependent

the bats would perform in an exaggerated way on batter friendly tracks

bowlers would perform in an exaggerated way on bowler friendly tracks

the team with Bradman wins more often than not

I think this is very much possible.

An Adelaide track with have huge scores, Perth would be a bloodbath for bats.

 

[reyrey]

This is what happened with 80s WI team and they all averaged 21-24. Were up against plenty of mediocre batsmen as well. Here they will be up against some of the very best in history and I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that the ATG bowlers will average about the same.

Not really. Here you have 4 fast men bowling up to 90 overs on day one. They'd need to bowl 22 or 23 overs each. They definitely weren't bowling full throttle all the time.

An ATG line up has an ATG spinner who can comfortably bowl a lot overs plus a good all rounder. Your ATG fast bowlers can go full throttle and be rested and rotated much much more easily.

A good example of this full throttle bowling is Mitchell Johnson and his 4 over bowling spells and the devastation he caused. Steyn is also another example of a bowler who would sometimes bowl full throttle, but he'd also bowl a lot of spells where he felt he had to hold back that style of bowling so he could use it for maximum impact at another point in the game.

 

[smash84]

I think this is very much possible.

An Adelaide track with have huge scores, Perth would be a bloodbath for bats.

Are you saying it will average out?