Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of Wicketkeepers Poll

[kyear2]

And the longevity argument is also being seriously over played

 

[Coronis]

Nah. From what I hear Bari was a good keeper but I saw a lot of Boucher and he was mid at best. He was just fortunate that SA didn't have anyone better for his whole career.

I mean, you could say the same about Anderson

 

[Line and Length]

Do members want this poll extended beyond a Top 15? We have 60 in both bowlers and batsmen polls but teams include multiple players in both categories but only one designated keeper.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

A voting thread for all rounders after this would be fun

 

[Fuller Pilch]

A voting thread for all rounders after this would be fun

We did a top 25 allrounders vote in 2022.

 

[Qlder]

Do members want this poll extended beyond a Top 15?

With Flower about to become the 14th best WK of all-time I think it's safe to say this Poll has run its course

 

[CricAddict]

From the outset I hoped that voters wouldn't overly look at batting ability. I suggested a 70/30 keeping/batting ratio be considered. Without being too critical of voters, some appear to have adopted a 30/70 ratio.
Since WWII there has been less emphasis on purist keepers and more on keeper/batsmen with Knott being the trend-setter in this regard. Since then selectors, and spectators, have been accepting of batsmen/keepers whose keeping skills are basic, and in some cases barely adequate.
Having said that, keepers such as Gilchrist, Healy and Knott have been excellent/very good keepers and richly deserve their high rankings. Unfortunately, highly skilled keepers such as Tallon, Evans and Russell have often been overlooked. Fortunately the well documented skills of Oldfield saw him ranked in our poll.

You have been setting the ATG XIs in the other thread using the polls. In that case, 70:30 in favor of keeping will not be ok for me since I would rather have a Pant instead of Saha in my ATG XI. The keeper usually bats at 7 and I want my No 7 batsman to be really good.

 

[TheJediBrah]

since I would rather have a Pant instead of Saha in my ATG XI

Just get one of them to fake an injury and have both

 

[capt_Luffy]

Do members want this poll extended beyond a Top 15? We have 60 in both bowlers and batsmen polls but teams include multiple players in both categories but only one designated keeper.

I think with how many keepers are looking to miss out and getting a lot of votes, this poll should be extended to Top 20.

 

[ataraxia]

How can bating be a main criteria for a specialist position that doesn't include batting though.

Without meaning to sound sarky (that isn't my intention): is this a genuine belief of yours?

Sorry to bring this back up, but I'm presuming given your lack of answer to this that it isn't a genuine belief and was just some throwaway comment. That does not an argument make.

 

[kyear2]

Sorry to bring this back up, but I'm presuming given your lack of answer to this that it isn't a genuine belief and was just some throwaway comment. That does not an argument make.

It is a genuine belief. I would prefer if they didn't average 15, but the notion that you just go with that better batsman is antithetical to purpose of the position.

It is a factor, but can't be the absolute primary one. I think earlier I proposed a 60 / 40 split. Like Flower wouldn't be an option for me over let's even say Healy.

 

[ataraxia]

In that case, why is 50/50 this all-important splitting point for you? Couldn't it just as well be 48/52 or 45/55? To me, 51% keeping, 49% batting being A-OK while 49% keeping, 51% batting isn't solely due to an important number occurring between those two values is illogical. Especially when we've seen that over time the pressure to bat put on a wicket-keeper has grown, from no requirement to requiring almost the same ability as a specialist #5/6 bat in some parts of the world – what is the basis for all this improvement having a set cap at 50/50?

 

[kyear2]

In that case, why is 50/50 this all-important splitting point for you? Couldn't it just as well be 48/52 or 45/55? To me, 51% keeping, 49% batting being A-OK while 49% keeping, 51% batting isn't solely due to an important number occurring between those two values is illogical. Especially when we've seen that over time the pressure to bat put on a wicket-keeper has grown, from no requirement to requiring almost the same ability as a specialist #5/6 bat in some parts of the world – what is the basis for all this improvement having a set cap at 50/50?

You're trying to be pedantic. All I'm saying is that your actually wicketkeeping skills should have some priority in the selection.

 

[ataraxia]

Well **** mate if it wasn't a genuine belief then why didn't you say so the two times of asking?

 

[kyear2]

Well **** mate if it wasn't a genuine belief then why didn't you say so the two times of asking?

I'm lost.

Batting can't be the primary consideration when selecting a wicketkeeper.

Yes it is a factor, way more so than for a bowling attack, but can't be the primary one.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm lost.

Batting can't be the primary consideration when selecting a wicketkeeper.

Yes it is a factor, way more so than for a bowling attack, but can't be the primary one.

But it can be overbearingly deciding. Andy Flower makes more impact for a median team than Ian Healy.
Having Don Tallon ahead of Dhoni is just stupid.

 

[ataraxia]

I'm lost.

Batting can't be the primary consideration when selecting a wicketkeeper.

Yes it is a factor, way more so than for a bowling attack, but can't be the primary one.

For the catcher in baseball, batting is the primary factor. Obviously wicketkeepers have a greater role than catchers, but it's still an example of a specialist position for which batting is more important.

Your repeated mantra that batting "can't" be more important than keeping – but that it can be a secondary consideration of any prominence – does not make any sense to me.

 

[kyear2]

But it can be overbearingly deciding. Andy Flower makes more impact for a median team than Ian Healy.
Having Don Tallon ahead of Dhoni is just stupid.

Who are you selection, Flower or Knott?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Who are you selection, Flower or Knott?

Depends on the team. Closer, because Knott knows how to hold a bat and was more than exceptional while Flower was capable at best. In a rank Turner for a strong team, I would take Knott while in a flat or fast pitch for a median or weak team, I would take Flower.

 

[kyear2]

Depends on the team. Closer, because Knott knows how to hold a bat and was more than exceptional while Flower was capable at best. In a rank Turner for a strong team, I would take Knott while in a flat or fast pitch for a median or weak team, I would take Flower.

If the team is that weak just play Flower as a batsman and let the real keeper hold the gloves.

From everything I've seen and read I would even rate Walcott over someone like Flower, and easily at that.