Sachin Tendulkar vs Malcolm Marshall

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I consider his 2007 Aus tour up there.

Then even Marshall’s tour of Pak in 86 is ATG.

 

[subshakerz]

Perhaps you can also call Sachin ATG in SA. But if Sachin is an ATG in NZ and Eng, then Marshall is one in Australia. By an ATG in a country, I mean one of the best performers there ever. Marshall is that at home, in Eng and Asia. Sachin in Australia, perhaps SA.

I think I care more about the overall picture of record across all countries, including ATG and general worldclass performance, and Tendulkar simply has a wider palette, against generally tougher opposition and over a longer period.

 

[OverratedSanity]

You're both just going around in circles. Please stop for the sake of your braincells.

 

[subshakerz]

You're both just going around in circles. Please stop for the sake of your braincells.

I think we have come to agreement somewhat.

 

[Prince EWS]

Maybe, but he was facing peak Mcgrath in 99

Backs up the thread title of subz really.

>make 104
>score 8 (29) off the best bowler
>get bowled by him after
>rinse and repeat for the rest of the series
>conquered an ATG

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I think we have come to agreement somewhat.

Yep it’s Marshall’s somewhat more concentrated greatness(high level of greatness across diverse but less diverse than Tendulkar’s opposition) and better peak vs Tendulkar’s longevity as well performance vs an incredibly wide array of opponents

 

[subshakerz]

Maybe, but he was facing peak Mcgrath in 99

Tendulkar in 2007 was facing an excellent Aus bowling attack and ended up with his highest yield series.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Tendulkar in 2007 was facing an excellent Aus bowling attack and ended up with his highest yield series.

Yes my only doubt is that pitches were flatter in the 2000s and Tendulkar was facing Mcgrath on tougher pitches in 1999-2000.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

So for me, 2007 is tough to categorise as an out and out ATG series, cause of the flatter tracks and lack of an ATG bowler in the Aus side

 

[subshakerz]

So for me, 2007 is tough to categorise as an out and out ATG series, cause of the flatter tracks and lack of an ATG bowler in the Aus side

Brett Lee wasn't an ATG but that was during his brief worldclass phase. Clark was also a class bowler.

I consider this and his 97-98 series against Aus at home and 2010 SA series to all be great series.

So while it is true he doesn't have many high yield series, these still can enter the conversation.

 

[Slifer]

While some have argued that Marshall faced generally less great/trying batting than Sachin did in bowling, I think we can all agree that he never bowled to any batting who was equivalent to the Bangladesh and Zimbabwes that Sachin feasted on.

 

[Slifer]

Then even Marshall’s tour of Pak in 86 is ATG.

Marshall in Pakistan in '86 is certainly atg. He single handedly avenged WIs humiliation from the first test.

 

[capt_Luffy]

While some have argued that Marshall faced generally less great/trying batting than Sachin did in bowling, I think we can all agree that he never bowled to any batting who was equivalent to the Bangladesh and Zimbabwes that Sachin feasted on.

He played 8% of all his matches against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe combined.....

 

[subshakerz]

While some have argued that Marshall faced generally less great/trying batting than Sachin did in bowling, I think we can all agree that he never bowled to any batting who was equivalent to the Bangladesh and Zimbabwes that Sachin feasted on.

And? We all consider his Zimbabwe and Bangladesh records irrelevant.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Great tours agreed, but ATG to me is like Marshall in Ind 1983

Then even Marshall’s tour of Pak in 86 is ATG.

What's your justification for considering these performances ATG but not something like Tendulkar in Australia in 07/08 or his early tours to England? You cited flat pitches, but those two Marshall series (especially 86 in Pakistan) had several bowlers from both teams doing as well as him or better.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He played 8% of all his matches against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe combined.....

Yes, he didn't really get to bash on them that much. It's a minuscule proportion of his career.

Also, the late 90s/early 2000s Zimbabwe team is often wrongly classified as a minnow. There was a short window where they were competitive and won a few tests. They literally won 2 of the 9 tests Tendulkar played against them. Apart from that tiny window, it's fair to call them a minnow.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes, he didn't really get to bash on them that much. It's a minuscule proportion of his career.

Also, the late 90s/early 2000s Zimbabwe team is often wrongly classified as a minnow. There was a short window where they were competitive and won a few tests. They literally won 2 of the 9 tests Tendulkar played against them. Apart from that tiny window, it's fair to call them a minnow.

I mean, they won a Test series in Pakistan right after winning a one match series against India for what it counts.....

 

[OverratedSanity]

I mean, they won a Test series in Pakistan right after winning a one match series against India for what it counts.....

They won a series in Pakistan and there was one series where Pakistan toured Zim a few months before where Zimbabwe should've won, but very narrowly lost. Drew a couple of series vs Eng and NZ too.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

What's your justification for considering these performances ATG but not something like Tendulkar in Australia in 07/08 or his early tours to England? You cited flat pitches, but those two Marshall series (especially 86 in Pakistan) had several bowlers from both teams doing as well as him or better.

Nah I said if Tendulkar in 2007 in Aus is ATG, then Marshall in 1986 Pak is ATG. Early tours to England, I believe they were a very weak especially during his big series in 97. A very good/great series for sure.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

And 83 were concrete pitches, where I agree Holding(also an ATG performance) and Kapil did very well, but Marshall was the best.