Sachin Tendulkar vs Malcolm Marshall

[ma1978]

If you had a crystal ball and you could get Sachin (in my view the best after Bradman) or Marshall’s (in my view the GOAT bowler) for their careers you take Sachin any day because of the 18 years of sustained excellence.

 

[capt_Luffy]

And 83 were concrete pitches, where I agree Holding(also an ATG performance) and Kapil did very well, but Marshall was the best.

Where they concrete though if only 1 batsman scored 500+ in 6 matches and 2 other bowlers were close to Marshall??? It certainly wasn't bowler's friendly, far from it; concrete road not sure of.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Where they concrete though if only 1 batsman scored 500+ in 6 matches and 2 other bowlers were close to Marshall??? It certainly wasn't bowler's friendly, far from it; concrete road not sure of.

They were roads, it was that the batsmen were against the WI attack, that’s why they struggled and exclef Gavaskar, Lloyd scored 490+ then. Viv was in his period of a brief slump, cause of his eye problems, corrected next year, otherwise he would’ve scored more probably. And one of those two bowlers was a near ATG, and the other India’s best ever(Bumrah apart).

 

[Slifer]

Where they concrete though if only 1 batsman scored 500+ in 6 matches and 2 other bowlers were close to Marshall??? It certainly wasn't bowler's friendly, far from it; concrete road not sure of.

Bro, the wickets were flat, Marshall and Holding just took the wickets out of the equation. Marshall did it through tons of leg and off cutters and Holding through sheer pace and bowling rim rod straight.

 

[Slifer]

They were roads, it was that the batsmen were against the WI attack, that’s why they struggled and exclef Gavaskar, Lloyd scored 490+ then. And one of those two bowlers was a near ATG, and the other India’s best ever(Bumrah apart).

Sunny struggled as well. He damn near scored nearly half his runs (236*) in the 6th test. Prior to that and even with scores of 91 and 121 prior he was averaging under 30 going into the last test. Marshall had dismissed him 5 times in 10 innings til then m

 

[capt_Luffy]

They were roads, it was that the batsmen were against the WI attack, that’s why they struggled and exclef Gavaskar, Lloyd scored 490+ then. Viv was in his period of a brief slump, cause of his eye problems, corrected next year, otherwise he would’ve scored more probably. And one of those two bowlers was a near ATG, and the other India’s best ever(Bumrah apart).

Bro, the wickets were flat, Marshall and Holding just took the wickets out of the equation. Marshall did it through tons of leg and off cutters and Holding through sheer pace and bowling rim rod straight.

I never said the wickets weren't flat, but concrete to me is something akin to what Pakistan makes nowadays. I don't think Kapil Dev would had averaged 18 in such pitches, no matter the form.....

 

[smash84]

Tendulkar's slip fielding was sub par for a batsman of his quality so he doesn't get kyear points either.

This is the part I don't agree with. Tendulkar was a very safe fielder pretty much anywhere. Not sure what "sub par for a batsman of his quality means"

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I never said the wickets weren't flat, but concrete to me is something akin to what Pakistan makes nowadays. I don't think Kapil Dev would had averaged 18 in such pitches, no matter the form.....

He was in the form of his life. Plus anyways Marshall’s 33 wickets in 1983 against strong Indian batting on atleast somewhat flat wickets is clearly better than Sachin’s tour of Aus 2007.

 

[Slifer]

I never said the wickets weren't flat, but concrete to me is something akin to what Pakistan makes nowadays. I don't think Kapil Dev would had averaged 18 in such pitches, no matter the form.....

Coverage in the 80s were sketchy at best. Most of my recollection is from radio commentary from the likes of Bloefield if I remember correctly so I can only go by what was described: pitches not conducive to pace.

 

[subshakerz]

Where they concrete though if only 1 batsman scored 500+ in 6 matches and 2 other bowlers were close to Marshall??? It certainly wasn't bowler's friendly, far from it; concrete road not sure of.

Marshall in 83 was a legit ATG series performance

 

[capt_Luffy]

Coverage in the 80s were sketchy at best. Most of my recollection is from radio commentary from the likes of Bloefield if I remember correctly so I can only go by what was described: pitches not conducive to pace.

Didn't the spinners did significantly worse?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Marshall in 83 was a legit ATG series performance

Never said otherwise. Arguably the best series by any touring bowler ever in India, just disagreed with the concrete pitch notion.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He was in the form of his life. Plus anyways Marshall’s 33 wickets in 1983 against strong Indian batting on atleast somewhat flat wickets is clearly better than Sachin’s tour of Aus 2007.

And again, I never disagreed on that. The only comparable Sachin tour is 2010 SA imo.

 

[smash84]

tempted to vote for Statchin here because of unbelievable longevity and well rounded record.

But I generally value bowlers significantly higher (and bowling all rounders even higher). So would want to vote for Marshall

Tough call. In fact I am surprised that kyear2 has voted Marshall over here given how much better Tendulkar was as a slip fielder than Marshall. Or I shouldn't be surprised because as usual he won't apply his criteria consistently?

 

[subshakerz]

While some have argued that Marshall faced generally less great/trying batting than Sachin did in bowling, I think we can all agree that he never bowled to any batting who was equivalent to the Bangladesh and Zimbabwes that Sachin feasted on.

Marshalls average and SR are also fairly boosted by playing in a pack.

 

[subshakerz]

Tough call. In fact I am surprised that kyear2 has voted Marshall over here given how much better Tendulkar was as a slip fielder than Marshall. Or I shouldn't be surprised because as usual he won't apply his criteria consistently?

@kyear2 changes criteria player by player. That's the only thing he is consistent on.

 

[centurymaker]

While some have argued that Marshall faced generally less great/trying batting than Sachin did in bowling, I think we can all agree that he never bowled to any batting who was equivalent to the Bangladesh and Zimbabwes that Sachin feasted on.

Bowlers take a significant proportion of their wickets dismissing useless 'tailenders'. Thats far easier than batsmen feasting on proper bowlers from Zimbabwe Bangladesh Afghanistan..

I wonder what the true bowling average is of our ATG bowlers without their cheap tailend wickets.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Bowlers take a significant proportion of their wickets dismissing useless 'tailenders'. Thats far easier than batsmen feasting on proper bowlers from Zimbabwe Bangladesh Afghanistan..

I wonder what the true bowling average is of our ATG bowlers without their cheap tailend wickets.

I remember someone doing an exercise regarding this, and Marshall did pretty well overall

 

[capt_Luffy]

Bowlers take a significant proportion of their wickets dismissing useless 'tailenders'. Thats far easier than batsmen feasting on proper bowlers from Zimbabwe Bangladesh Afghanistan..

I wonder what the true bowling average is of our ATG bowlers without their cheap tailend wickets.

If anything, this pretty much happens to each and every single bowler to ever exist, so that pretty much balances itself out.

 

[Slifer]

Bowlers take a significant proportion of their wickets dismissing useless 'tailenders'. Thats far easier than batsmen feasting on proper bowlers from Zimbabwe Bangladesh Afghanistan..

I wonder what the true bowling average is of our ATG bowlers without their cheap tailend wickets.