Sachin Tendulkar vs Malcolm Marshall

[Migara]

There are more bats than bowlers. One can still be in the top three bats and be comparable to Marshall.

Exactly. But I don't see unaniomous rating of Tendulkar in top 4 compared to Marshall in top 2.

In fact Bradman, Sobers, Headly and Smith could be easily picked overt Tendulkar albeit few people. But other than for that extreme rare case everyone picks Marshall in top 2.

 

[subshakerz]

Exactly. But I don't see unaniomous rating of Tendulkar in top 4 compared to Marshall in top 2.

In fact Bradman, Sobers, Headly and Smith could be easily picked overt Tendulkar albeit few people. But other than for that extreme rare case everyone picks Marshall in top 2.

Bradman leave aside. Sobers maybe. Headley and Smith no way. Tendulkar easily gets in the top three.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Sachin is the more tested cricketer perhaps, but Marshall has a better record overall where there is an overlap of countries they have played in. For example Sachin was ATG in Aus and near ATG at home. Marshall was an ATG at home, Eng and in Asia overall(facing strong lineups and having a great average despite poor tours at the start).

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin is the more tested cricketer perhaps, but Marshall has a better record overall where there is an overlap of countries they have played in. For example Sachin was ATG in Aus and near ATG at home. Marshall was an ATG at home, Eng and in Asia overall(facing strong lineups and having a great average despite poor tours at the start).

Tendulkar was ATG in Aus during a period when Aus were the no.1 side in the world for much of that time and he had multiple quality tours.

Marshall only faced India which was a strong lineup at home. Aus, Eng, Pak, NZ were all ordinary lineups.

So Marshall's better record is against fewer and less quality opponents in a small time period mostly based on single away series performances that weren't repeated, except in England.

Only those convinced by reading averages without context would consider Marshall to have a better record.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Tendulkar was ATG in Aus during a period when Aus were the no.1 side in the world for much of that time and he had multiple quality tours.

Marshall only faced India which was a strong lineup at home. Aus, Eng, Pak, NZ were all ordinary lineups.

So Marshall's better record is not only against fewer and less quality opponents in a small time period mostly based on single away series performances that weren't repeated, except in England.

I have already factored that. Marshall faced decent Eng lineups and he averaged 18 in England and had an insane WPM. He is ATG there easily, and same at home, having a WPM of above 5 is very very tough while bowling in competitive attacks. And everyone agrees he is an ATG in Asia overall, where he played 19 matches and didn’t face any minnows. He faced cement type pitches while Lillee and Co cried about and averaged sub 24 there overall even if you include his early tours. Everyone agrees Marshall is the best ever visiting bowler to Asia or close to it. And you already conceded England(even against ordinary/decent lineups averaging 18 and that WPM is ATG). For SRT ATG dominance is only in Australia.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Basically Marshall had 3 great series in Asia, two in Pak and one very long one in India. That’s enough I guess

 

[subshakerz]

Basically Marshall had 3 great series in Asia, two in Pak and one very long one in India. That’s enough I guess

No. Marshall in 80 in Pak wasnt a great series, it was a good one though I will grant you.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

No. Marshall in 80 in Pak wasnt a great series, it was a good one though I will grant you.

Fine one good, one great and the third one of the best of all. And in 1980, Lillee had famously described those pitches as a graveyard, but a young Marshall did well on them.

 

[subshakerz]

I have already factored that. Marshall faced decent Eng lineups and he averaged 18 in England and had an insane WPM. He is ATG there easily, and same at home, having a WPM of above 5 is very very tough while bowling in competitive attacks. And everyone agrees he is an ATG in Asia overall, where he played 19 matches and didn’t face any minnows. He faced cement type pitches while Lillee and Co cried about and averaged sub 24 there overall even if you include his early tours. Everyone agrees Marshall is the best ever visiting bowler to Asia or close to it. And you already conceded England(even against ordinary/decent lineups averaging 18 and that WPM is ATG). For SRT ATG dominance is only in Australia.

What are you defining as ATG? To me, Sachin is ATG in most countries except Pak and Zimbabwe.

And I am not saying that Marshall isnt worldclass in those countries, I am just saying as an achievement generally his overall record has less countries, weaker opposition and in a shorter period.

All three factors are pretty much indisputable.

Your counter would be that he excelled statistically moreso away than Sachin on average, which is fine. I just think the above is more important.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

What are you defining as ATG? To me, Sachin is ATG in most countries except Pak and Zimbabwe.

And I am not saying that Marshall isnt worldclass in those countries, I am just saying as an achievement generally his overall record has less countries, weaker opposition and in a shorter period.

All three factors are pretty much indisputable.

Your counter would be that he excelled statistically moreso away than Sachin on average, which is fine. I just think the above is more important.

Perhaps you can also call Sachin ATG in SA. But if Sachin is an ATG in NZ and Eng, then Marshall is one in Australia. By an ATG in a country, I mean one of the best performers there ever. Marshall is that at home, in Eng and Asia. Sachin in Australia, perhaps SA.

 

[OverratedSanity]

For example Sachin was ATG in Aus and near ATG at home.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Perhaps you can also call Sachin ATG in SA. But if Sachin is an ATG in NZ, then Marshall is one in Australia. By an ATG in a country, I mean one of the best performers there ever. Marshall is that at home, in Eng and Asia. Sachin in Australia, perhaps SA.

Again, I think this is a very nitpicky type of comparison, which simply doesn't works for this 2. Marshall mostly have 1 ATG series in most countries like India and Pakistan; while Sachin toured most countries 5-6 times over his career.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Again, I think this is a very nitpicky type of comparison, which simply doesn't works for this 2. Marshall mostly have 1 ATG series in most countries like India and Pakistan; while Sachin toured most countries 5-6 times over his career.

Sachin has one ATG series in Aus(99) and one in SA(2010). Can’t call any of the England, NZ or SL ones ATG.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Tendulkar's best tour of Australia was 07-08, not 99

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Tendulkar's best tour of Australia was 07-08, not 99

Maybe, but he was facing peak Mcgrath in 99

 

[OverratedSanity]

Can’t call any of the England, NZ or SL ones ATG.

Surely you can. He had huge tours of England and SL multiple times.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Surely you can. He had huge tours of England and SL multiple times.

Great tours agreed, but ATG to me is like Marshall in Ind 1983 or even Tendulkar in SA 2010

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ok

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin has one ATG series in Aus(99) and one in SA(2010). Can’t call any of the England, NZ or SL ones ATG.

I consider his 2007 Aus tour up there.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

What are you defining as ATG? To me, Sachin is ATG in most countries except Pak and Zimbabwe.

And I am not saying that Marshall isnt worldclass in those countries, I am just saying as an achievement generally his overall record has less countries, weaker opposition and in a shorter period.

All three factors are pretty much indisputable.

Your counter would be that he excelled statistically moreso away than Sachin on average, which is fine. I just think the above is more important.

Agreed. You raise some good points. Probably I’ll change my vote to SRT sometime. Very close