The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Fuller Pilch]

The team needs another bowling option better than Clarke, or else Chappell and Waugh are way over bowling in this level. Mitch Marsh seems logical to bat at 6, Clarke is too slow to bat at 5 and Hussey anyways kinda feels a little waste at 6.

Greg Chappell averaged 29 with the ball and had an economy rate of 4.04. He would be the 5th bowler, with Mark Waugh as 6th.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Australia Second Best XI that can beat any other Countries XI
1) David Warner
2) Matthew Hayden
3) Mark Waugh
4) Greg Chappell
5) Michael Clarke (c)
6) Michael Hussey
7) Brad Haddin +
8) Mitchell Johnson
9) Brad Hogg
10) Nathan Bracken
11) Dennis Lillee

Bowling : Lillee, Johnson, Bracken, Hogg, Waugh, Clarke, Chappell - Its a Good Bowling lineup

 

[CricketFan90s]

And if all 11 get injured they could also pick this team which is still very good

1) Warner
2) Hayden
3) M. Waugh
4) G. Chappell
5) Clarke/Lehmann
6) M. Hussey
7) Haddin
8) B. Hogg
9) Johnson
10) Lillee
11) Bracken

Why Bracken and not Craig McDormett ?

 

[trundler]

I'm still not sold on Maxwell in an all time XI.

 

[CricketFan90s]

I'm still not sold on Maxwell in an all time XI.

Why ?

 

[CricketFan90s]

India-Pakistan XI that can defeat Australia XI (Do you agree ?)
1) Rohit Sharma
2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) Virat Kohli
4) Yuvraj Singh
5) Zaheer Abbas
6) MS Dhoni +(c)
7) Imran Khan
8) Kapil Dev
9) Wasim Akram
10) Saqlian Mushtaq
11) Waqar Younis

 

[TheJediBrah]

I find all this talk of Clarke batting slow very interesting. Slipped under my radar because I remember his early career more clearly where he was a real dasher down at 6 and 7. Wasn't until his back problems when he moved up the order and became a bit more stodgy I think.

Why ?

Maxwell is useless 95% of the time tbh. Shouldn't be close to an ATG team until the Aus 4th or 5th XI IMO

Why Bracken and not Craig McDormett ?

Bracken was way better than McDermott in ODIs. Bracken wouldn't be far off the Aus First XI

 

[Victor Ian]

In looking at bowling analysis for part timers across era, it has to be remembered that Chappel bowled when scoring was extremely low. Mark Waugh always felt more than adequate as the part timer. His economy is not bad for the era but his strike rate was great. In an ATG team, you mostly want a proper bowler as your 5th, but if you are mixing part timers in that spot I think Waugh is underated. He could also mic between medium pace or spin as is needed.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Some combination of Clarke/Lehmann/Symonds did a good 5th bowler's role for Australia at their peak, before Watson fully came along

I don't think there's anything wrong with it even in an ATG scenario if it makes the batting sufficiently stronger

 

[TheJediBrah]

I would be trying to sneak Shaun Tait into an Aus side before the likes of McDermott or Johnson

he hardly played and had a very small window but when he did he was as effective as anyone. Stood out in the World Cup he played in too, 2nd highest wicket taker

 

[CricketFan90s]

Australia XI vs Asia XI Who will Win ?
1) Adam Gilchrist + 1) Sanath Jayasuriya
2) Mark Waugh 2) Sachin Tendulkar
3) Ricky Ponting (c) 3) Virat Kohli
4) Dean Jones 4) Zaheer Abbas
5) Andrew Symonds 5) Aravinda De Silva
6) Michael Bevan 6) Yuvraj Singh
7) Shane Watson 7) MS Dhoni +(c)
8) Brett Lee 8) Wasim Akram
9) Shane Warne 9) Muttiah Muralitharan
10) Mitchell Starc 10) Waqar Younis
11) Glenn McGrath 11) Jasprit Bumrah

 

[capt_Luffy]

I find all this talk of Clarke batting slow very interesting. Slipped under my radar because I remember his early career more clearly where he was a real dasher down at 6 and 7. Wasn't until his back problems when he moved up the order and became a bit more stodgy I think.

Maxwell is useless 95% of the time tbh. Shouldn't be close to an ATG team until the Aus 4th or 5th XI IMO

Bracken was way better than McDermott in ODIs. Bracken wouldn't be far off the Aus First XI

Buttler is considered one of if not the best late order batsman post Dhoni. Let's compare him with Maxwell:
Buttler - 5022 @39.5, SR 117
Maxwell- 3895 @35.4, SR 126

Looks Buttler is better, but not significantly. And on comparing their WC records:

Buttler - 591 @26.86, SR 118
Maxwell - 901 @47.43, SR 160

Welp, Maxwell is noway near a good ODI finisher.....

 

[peterhrt]

Ten all-time Australian XIs from past and present:

Pelham Warner and 1932 Tourists to Australia: Trumper, Macartney, Bradman, Hill, Giffen, Noble*, Armstrong, Jack Gregory, Oldfield+, Turner, Spofforth.

Cricket Society 1949: Trumper, Ponsford, Bradman, Macartney, Hill, Noble*, Jack Gregory, Oldfield+, Grimmett, McDonald, O'Reilly.

Arthur Mailey 1961: Trumper, Ponsford, Macartney, Bradman, Archie Jackson, Noble*, Miller, Jack Gregory, Oldfield+, Trumble, O'Reilly.

The Cricketer 1976: (Arlott, Frith, Swanton): Trumper, Simpson, Bradman*, Macartney, Harvey, Miller, Oldfield+, Lindwall, Trumble, Lillee, O'Reilly.

Keith Miller 1977: Charles Bannerman, Trumper, Bradman, Ponsford, McCabe, Miller, Noble*, Lindwall, Tallon+, Grimmett, O'Reilly.

Cricket Society 1979: Trumper, Macartney, Bradman, Harvey, Greg Chappell, Miller, Benaud*, Lindwall, Oldfield+, Lillee, O'Reilly.

Bradman 2000: (as relayed to third party): Ponsford, Morris, Bradman*, Harvey, Macartney, Miller, Tallon+, Lindwall, Lillee, Grimmett, O'Reilly.

Cricinfo 2009: (10 Australian journalists): Trumper, Morris, Bradman*, Greg Chappell, Border, Miller, Gilchrist+, Warne, Lillee, O'Reilly, McGrath.

Bleacher Report 2013: Hayden, Trumper, Bradman*, Ponting, Greg Chappell, Miller, Gilchrist+, Lindwall, Warne, Lillee, McGrath.

The Roar (Australian website) 2023: Trumper, Simpson, Bradman, Steve Smith, Border*, Gilchrist+, Miller, Jack Gregory, Warne, Turner, Lillee.

Number of times selected:

10 – Bradman
9 – Trumper
8 – Miller
7 – O'Reilly
6 – Macartney, Lillee
5 – Oldfield, Lindwall
4 – Noble, Jack Gregory, Ponsford
3 – Grimmett, Harvey, Greg Chappell, Warne, Gilchrist
2 – Turner, Trumble, Hill, Tallon, Morris, Simpson, Border, McGrath
1 – Spofforth, Charles Bannerman, Giffen, Armstrong, McDonald, Jackson, McCabe, Benaud, Hayden, Ponting, Steve Smith

Not selected – Davidson, Steve Waugh, Cummins

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ten all-time Australian XIs from past and present:

Pelham Warner and 1932 Tourists to Australia: Trumper, Macartney, Bradman, Hill, Giffen, Noble*, Armstrong, Jack Gregory, Oldfield+, Turner, Spofforth.

Cricket Society 1949: Trumper, Ponsford, Bradman, Macartney, Hill, Noble*, Jack Gregory, Oldfield+, Grimmett, McDonald, O'Reilly.

Arthur Mailey 1961: Trumper, Ponsford, Macartney, Bradman, Archie Jackson, Noble*, Miller, Jack Gregory, Oldfield+, Trumble, O'Reilly.

The Cricketer 1976: (Arlott, Frith, Swanton): Trumper, Simpson, Bradman*, Macartney, Harvey, Miller, Oldfield+, Lindwall, Trumble, Lillee, O'Reilly.

Keith Miller 1977: Charles Bannerman, Trumper, Bradman, Ponsford, McCabe, Miller, Noble*, Lindwall, Tallon+, Grimmett, O'Reilly.

Cricket Society 1979: Trumper, Macartney, Bradman, Harvey, Greg Chappell, Miller, Benaud*, Lindwall, Oldfield+, Lillee, O'Reilly.

Bradman 2000: (as relayed to third party): Ponsford, Morris, Bradman*, Harvey, Macartney, Miller, Tallon+, Lindwall, Lillee, Grimmett, O'Reilly.

Cricinfo 2009: (10 Australian journalists): Trumper, Morris, Bradman*, Greg Chappell, Border, Miller, Gilchrist+, Warne, Lillee, O'Reilly, McGrath.

Bleacher Report 2013: Hayden, Trumper, Bradman*, Ponting, Greg Chappell, Miller, Gilchrist+, Lindwall, Warne, Lillee, McGrath.

The Roar (Australian website) 2023: Trumper, Simpson, Bradman, Steve Smith, Border*, Gilchrist+, Miller, Jack Gregory, Warne, Turner, Lillee.

Number of times selected:

10 – Bradman
9 – Trumper
8 – Miller
7 – O'Reilly
6 – Macartney, Lillee
5 – Oldfield, Lindwall
4 – Noble, Jack Gregory, Ponsford
3 – Grimmett, Harvey, Greg Chappell, Warne, Gilchrist
2 – Turner, Trumble, Hill, Tallon, Morris, Simpson, Border, McGrath
1 – Spofforth, Charles Bannerman, Giffen, Armstrong, McDonald, Jackson, McCabe, Benaud, Hayden, Ponting, Steve Smith

Not selected – Davidson, Steve Waugh, Cummins

The 2023 is the strangest with Gregory and Turner ahead of Lindwall, Davidson, O'Reilly and heck, McGrath; and it's something given Miller has Bannerman in his team. Also had no idea MaCartney was so highly rated....

 

[CricketFan90s]

1910s-1940s Team vs 1990s-2000s Who Will Win ?

Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe
Don Bradman (c)
George Headley
Wally Hammond
Stan McCabe
Les Ames +
Harold Larwood
Clarrie Grimmett
Bill O'Reilly
Sydney Barnes

Graeme Smith
Matthew Hayden
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Sachin Tendulkar
Steve Waugh (c)
Adam Gilchrist +
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
Glenn McGrath

 

[capt_Luffy]

1910s-1940s Team vs 1990s-2000s Who Will Win ?

Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe
Don Bradman (c)
George Headley
Wally Hammond
Stan McCabe
Les Ames +
Harold Larwood
Clarrie Grimmett
Bill O'Reilly
Sydney Barnes

Graeme Smith
Matthew Hayden
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Sachin Tendulkar
Steve Waugh (c)
Adam Gilchrist +
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
Glenn McGrath

I think Dudley Nourse should be in for McCabe; but being a handy medium pacer and attacking batsman, I can see McCabe's case. The mid Wars team has a significantly superior batting, especially the openers and Bradman factor; but I think 90s are also well ahead in bowling...... I think it's closer than I first suspected, might go 90s just.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

The 2023 is the strangest with Gregory and Turner ahead of Lindwall, Davidson, O'Reilly and heck, McGrath; and it's something given Miller has Bannerman in his team. Also had no idea MaCartney was so highly rated....

I vaguely remember reading that Roar article from 2023, so googled to find it. It is an "eras XI" as opposed to an all-time XI.

The writer picked 1 player from each of 1877-99, 1900-19, 20-29, 30-49, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

1910s-1940s Team vs 1990s-2000s Who Will Win ?

Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe
Don Bradman (c)
George Headley
Wally Hammond
Stan McCabe
Les Ames +
Harold Larwood
Clarrie Grimmett
Bill O'Reilly
Sydney Barnes

Graeme Smith
Matthew Hayden
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Sachin Tendulkar
Steve Waugh (c)
Adam Gilchrist +
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
Glenn McGrath

10s-40s

 

[capt_Luffy]

I vaguely remember reading that Roar article from 2023, so googled to find it. It is an "eras XI" as opposed to an all-time XI.

The writer picked 1 player from each of 1877-99, 1900-19, 20-29, 30-49, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s.

Ohh yeah..... Now I think I also have read that one.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I tried to do the Roar thing, and it turned out depressingly similar, only change being that of Spofforth for Turner. Instead, I will try with England:

1. W G Grace (1877-99)
2. Jack Hobbs (20s)
3. Wally Hammond (30-49)
4. Ken Barrington (60s)
5. Graham Thorpe (90s)
6. Ian Botham (80s)
7. Matt Prior (00s)
8. Fred Trueman (50s)
9. Derek Underwood (70s)
10. James Anderson (10s)
11. Sydney Barnes (1900-19)

I don't know it's mera or pathetic that England's worst two decades are 1990s and 2000s; by far. I had several other options, even from pre WWIs; but those two were the hardest to fit.