Is James Anderson an ATG test bowler?

[Coronis]

I never did that!!! I always insisted his longevity is the thing pushing him to be an ATG for me! Others brought up that argument, which in itself is also fair.

Uh, but then you bring up his average in India over a shorter period of time to excuse his record

 

[OverratedSanity]

Uh, but then you bring up his average in India over a shorter period of time to excuse his record

That "shorter period" is 15 years. Longer than entire careers of most ATGs. Perfectly fair to use it.

 

[bagapath]

If only..... You're diverting it as someone is saying Jimmy is an ATG in India; he isn't. But saying he is poor in India is also very shortsighted.

in an ATG debate, his india numbers are pulling him down is what I am saying. by no means are those numbers gonna help the argument in his favour. there is nothing dishonest about those numbers.

 

[bagapath]

n Pakistan	2022-2022	2	4	67.0	17	148	8	4/36	5/88	18.50	2.20	50.2	0	0
in U.A.E.	2012-2015	6	12	216.0	63	452	22	4/17	6/69	20.54	2.09	58.9	0	0
in England	2003-2023	105	200	3794.2	1008	10634	434	7/42	11/71	24.50	2.80	52.4	24	3
in West Indies	2009-2019	10	17	346.3	95	893	36	6/42	7/77	24.80	2.57	57.7	2	0
in New Zealand	2008-2023	9	16	319.2	74	1021	36	5/73	7/54	28.36	3.19	53.2	1	0
in India	2006-2024	17	29	485.4	122	1332	44	4/40	6/79	30.27	2.74	66.2	0	0
in Sri Lanka	2003-2021	7	13	207.4	49	599	18	6/40	6/46	33.27	2.88	69.2	2	0
in Australia	2006-2022	21	39	824.3	217	2313	68	5/43	7/127	34.01	2.80	72.7	1	0
in South Africa	2005-2020	10	18	385.1	75	1177	34	5/40	8/161	34.61	3.05	67.9	2	0

Pretty toothless in India/ Sri Lanka/ Australia/ South Africa.
Even against a mediocre West Indies has not taken 4 wkt/ test in their conditions.
His home success and long career make him unique. But not an all-round bowler by any means.
A hard working, durable bowler. Not an ATG.

 

[Burgey]

Fwiw, Anderson is easily the best English pacer in India post Botham; and best pacer overall to play here in the last decade after Steyn (taking 2 series minimum).

He’s ordinary

 

[OverratedSanity]

My whole point was that even if you look at his away record post-2010 its still easily weaker than Pollock and Walsh’s, despite what the overall numbers might suggest. Funnily enough, his worst countries are the ones he’s played the most in.

All 3 were poor in Australia tho thats neat.

OK, that's valid objection.

Anderson post 2010 (15 years):



Away from home: 222 wickets in 65 tests @26.6

Shaun Pollock career (13 years) :



Away from home: 166 wickets in 44 tests @ 26.9

Why's Pollock's record much better? Seems pretty much identical to Anderson's really. Either they're both ATGs or they're both not imo.

 

[TheJediBrah]

is this even true

Obviously. If you're an ATG player most "holes in the record" are because of sample size, not because you actually aren't ATG in certain conditions. The more you play the less this is the case

 

[Coronis]

Anderson post 2010 (15 years):

View attachment 40023

Away from home: 222 wickets in 65 tests @26.6

Shaun Pollock career (13 years) :

View attachment 40025

Away from home: 166 wickets in 44 tests @ 26.9

Why's Pollock's record much better? Seems pretty much identical to Anderson's really. Either they're both ATGs or they're both not imo.

Not to me. I see one bloke more consistently effective across different conditions in a tougher era for bowling whilst another is poor across multiple countries and very effective in a few against weaker batting lineups

 

[OverratedSanity]

Not to me. I see one bloke more consistently effective across different conditions in a tougher era for bowling whilst another is poor across multiple countries and very effective in a few against weaker batting lineups

How though, Anderson very marginally (by a few decimal points) averaging over 30, Pollock is much worse in Australia, and only marginally less than 30 in WI/India.

Please don't pretend this is a significant difference in Pollock's favour. You should exclude both from ATG level imo, which I would love because **** James Anderson that overrated ****.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

No not in my opinion. He is a very very good bowler but when talking about picking an-all time team and coming to the bowlers section, he isnt in my mind. He isnt ahead of fast bowlers such as Marshall, Akram, Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Pollock. Even if there was an all-time team for the past 30 odd years, he isnt going to be considered, in my opinion. He falls short.

 

[Coronis]

How though, Anderson very marginally (by a few decimal points) averaging over 30, Pollock is much worse in Australia, and only marginally less than 30 in WI/India.

Please don't pretend this is a significant difference in Pollock's favour. You should exclude both from ATG level imo, which I would love because **** James Anderson that overrated ****.

So completely ignore me re the era difference and strength of opposition? There is a significant difference and you know it.

 

[honestbharani]

if 2.5 wks/test at 30 is good enough to make someone an ATG then india would be happy to face four such opposition bowlers in each and every test

And yet he is a key reason for the only series we lost in ages at home.

 

[Molehill]

And yet he is a key reason for the only series we lost in ages at home.

By my reckoning, the only country he hasn't won a series in is (bizarrely) W Indies.

No not in my opinion. He is a very very good bowler but when talking about picking an-all time team and coming to the bowlers section, he isnt in my mind. He isnt ahead of fast bowlers such as Marshall, Akram, Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Pollock. Even if there was an all-time team for the past 30 odd years, he isnt going to be considered, in my opinion. He falls short.

Do your ATG's need to fit into a team of 11?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Uh, but then you bring up his average in India over a shorter period of time to excuse his record

I think you got my point wrong.... I was not dismissing his India performance in 2006; just saying that post McGrath he is the best touring pacer in India after Steyn.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Anderson post 2010 (15 years):

View attachment 40023

Away from home: 222 wickets in 65 tests @26.6

Shaun Pollock career (13 years) :

View attachment 40025

Away from home: 166 wickets in 44 tests @ 26.9

Why's Pollock's record much better? Seems pretty much identical to Anderson's really. Either they're both ATGs or they're both not imo.

Wow never realized they were so similar.

Anderson = Pollock. There’s no good reason to only rate one of them as an ATG.

 

[Victor Ian]

Oh **** off, you wankers focussing on peak. Everyone insists on including pontings worst and the worst of everyone else, so this **** needs to cop it too. If Anderson wants his concessions he can bloody well wait till he is 70, like the rest of us. For crying out loud, the whole ATVG was made for this drip.

 

[OverratedSanity]

So completely ignore me re the era difference and strength of opposition? There is a significant difference and you know it.

The entirety of the 2010s decade until around 2018 was extraordinarily batter friendly. Whereas Pollock played 6 years in the 90s. The era argument might actually favour Anderson.

 

[Molehill]

Oh **** off, you wankers focussing on peak. Everyone insists on including pontings worst and the worst of everyone else, so this **** needs to cop it too. If Anderson wants his concessions he can bloody well wait till he is 70, like the rest of us. For crying out loud, the whole ATVG was made for this drip.

The Jimmy Anderson ATG Thread claims its first victim.........there will be more.

 

[Socerer 01]

Oh **** off, you wankers focussing on peak. Everyone insists on including pontings worst and the worst of everyone else, so this **** needs to cop it too. If Anderson wants his concessions he can bloody well wait till he is 70, like the rest of us. For crying out loud, the whole ATVG was made for this drip.

most erudite cw nostalgia jerker

 

[Socerer 01]

The entirety of the 2010s decade until around 2018 was extraordinarily batter friendly. Whereas Pollock played 6 years in the 90s. The era argument might actually favour Anderson.

and Pollock played in SA which was supposed to be not as batting friendly either last time the topic came up