Is James Anderson an ATG test bowler?

[bagapath]

61 players have taken 50 wickets or more in the Ashes.
Anderson is 58th in terms of average.

In India, among the fast bowlers with 20 wickets, he is 26th out of 33 (with 2.58 wks per test).

It is really tough to add his name along with even ATVG pacers, forget about ATG status.

 

[capt_Luffy]

61 players have taken 50 wickets or more in the Ashes.
Anderson is 58th in terms of average.

In India, among the fast bowlers with 20 wickets, he is 26th out of 33 (with 2.58 wks per test).

It is really tough to add his name along with even ATVG pacers, forget about ATG status.

That's dishonest for India. Post 2010, Anderson has the best bowling average of any pacer with 20+ wickets in India after Steyn and Southee (who is in fact very close to him by average, with less than 1/3 of the matches).

 

[bagapath]

That's dishonest for India. Post 2010, Anderson has the best bowling average of any pacer with 20+ wickets in India after Steyn and Southee (who is in fact very close to him by average, with less than 1/3 of the matches).

how is it dishonest?
the conversation is about whether he is ATG or not. why would a top bowler in the last 14 years in india be considered an ATG? and its 2.5 wickets per test?

 

[capt_Luffy]

how is it dishonest?
the conversation is about whether he is ATG or not. why would a top bowler in the last 14 years in india be considered an ATG? and its 2.5 wickets per test?

Because it's not just his performance in India, but everywhere except Australia and South Africa; especially England, and of course the longevity.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Fwiw, Anderson is easily the best English pacer in India post Botham; and best pacer overall to play here in the last decade after Steyn (taking 2 series minimum).

Southee has been better in India than Anderson.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Southee has been better in India than Anderson.

Played 5, Anderson played 17; averages around 2 runs less.

 

[Nintendo]

61 players have taken 50 wickets or more in the Ashes.
Anderson is 58th in terms of average.

In India, among the fast bowlers with 20 wickets, he is 26th out of 33 (with 2.58 wks per test).

It is really tough to add his name along with even ATVG pacers, forget about ATG status.

Warne has the second worst average of any spinner to take 15 wickets in india across his career!

In the west indies, with 15 wickets and across the length of his career, Warne has THE SECOND worst average.

It is really tough to add his name along with even ATVG spinners, forget about ATG status.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Played 5, Anderson played 17; averages around 2 runs less.

I realise that, but Southee is one of the best SENA seamers in Asia (58 wickets @ 26.5). Despite that I hope he doesn't tour Asia this year for our 6 tests (1 v Afg, 2 v SL, 3 v Ind) as we have several better options.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I realise that, but Southee is one of the best SENA seamers in Asia (58 wickets @ 26.5). Despite that I hope he doesn't tour Asia this year for our 6 tests (1 v Afg, 2 v SL, 3 v Ind) as we have several better options.

That's a different thing imo.


Also, on a separate note, you are on the clock in the ODI Draft.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Also, on a separate note, you are on the clock in the ODI Draft.

Thanks very much. I hadn't realised that it had started/forgot it was on.

 

[bagapath]

Because it's not just his performance in India, but everywhere except Australia and South Africa; especially England, and of course the longevity.

those are different points in the discussion. my post doesnt claim to negate those.
what I am stating here is that his record in ashes put him in the mediocre bracket. and in india he was ineffective, irrespective of who else did better/worse than him in his times.
there was no number tweaking. there was no illogical claim. there is no dishonesty.
he was toothless in india. that is a fact.

 

[capt_Luffy]

those are different points in the discussion. my post doesnt claim to negate those.
what I am stating here is that his record in ashes put him in the mediocre bracket. and in india he was ineffective, irrespective of who else did better/worse than him in his times.
there was no number tweaking. there was no illogical claim. there is no dishonesty.
he was toothless in india. that is a fact.

And I think you are simply wrong on the India point. He was better than bowler other than Steyn; and his record statistically isn't worse than Ashwin in England (Ashwin's best away).

 

[Socerer 01]

those are different points in the discussion. my post doesnt claim to negate those.
what I am stating here is that his record in ashes put him in the mediocre bracket. and in india he was ineffective, irrespective of who else did better/worse than him in his times.
there was no number tweaking. there was no illogical claim. there is no dishonesty.
he was toothless in india. that is a fact.

yeah no he wasnt

 

[Socerer 01]

It's pretty damning tbh. As you play more games as an ATG you should be eliminating any "holes" in the record but not the case for him.

I won't bat an eye if people call him an ATG based on time and cumulative performance alone but you're crazy to pretend he's in the same league as the top echelon

is this even true

 

[Coronis]

is this even true

Yes, unless the player truly has a weakness against that country/in those conditions.

That's dishonest for India. Post 2010, Anderson has the best bowling average of any pacer with 20+ wickets in India after Steyn and Southee (who is in fact very close to him by average, with less than 1/3 of the matches).

If you continue to insist on boosting his averages over a smaller period of time, it seems hard to also justify boosting him based on longevity.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Anderson's Ashes record is a legitimate hole in his record. Since some England fans often say the Ashes are all that matter, I'm surprised they consider a bowler with such a poor record in the only meaningful games in his career a great bowler. All he has is the 2010-11 tour.

However, I don't know how anyone can say he's been toothless in India. Played a key role in their historic series win, and did very well in the 2021 tour. He even bowled a good spell all the way back in 06 in a test they won to draw the series.

 

[bagapath]

if 2.5 wks/test at 30 is good enough to make someone an ATG then india would be happy to face four such opposition bowlers in each and every test

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Anderson's Ashes record is a legitimate hole in his record. Since some England fans often say the Ashes are all that matter, I'm surprised they consider a bowler with such a poor record in the only meaningful games in his career a great bowler. All he has is the 2010-11 tour.

However, I don't know how anyone can say he's been toothless in India. Played a key role in their historic series win, and did very well in the 2021 tour. He even bowled a good spell all the way back in 06 in a test they won to draw the series.

Fair enough, maybe it is a reflection of the times..
There used to be a mighty fine player back in the day, 100 FC hundreds, test average of around 47

Never got rated highly because of his test record vs Australia, talking about Denis Amiss..
It seems the England fans are more forgiving of Ashes performances these days.

 

[capt_Luffy]

if 2.5 wks/test at 30 is good enough to make someone an ATG then india would be happy to face four such opposition bowlers in each and every test

If only..... You're diverting it as someone is saying Jimmy is an ATG in India; he isn't. But saying he is poor in India is also very shortsighted.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes, unless the player truly has a weakness against that country/in those conditions.



If you continue to insist on boosting his averages over a smaller period of time, it seems hard to also justify boosting him based on longevity.

I never did that!!! I always insisted his longevity is the thing pushing him to be an ATG for me! Others brought up that argument, which in itself is also fair.