Was Dan Vettori better than the stats suggest

[TheJediBrah]

one of my favourite niche dan memories is him bowling six straight ones in a row to Warner and him mistiming almost every one due to playing for turn. Think there must be something about his action where he looks like hes putting decent revs on the ball so it's hard for some batsmen to override the muscle memory, even if they intellectually know he doesn't turn it.

This is why an offie with a decent arm ball can clean up in mid-level club cricket

You try to tell these guys "he's bowling straight balls, treat him like a slow medium pacer and if he loops one up that's the change up" but they just can't figure it out and by the end of the day the left-arm spinner has trapped in front 4 right handers who missed straight ones

 

[TheJediBrah]

It gets mentioned on here a lot, but Andre Adams playing only 1 test really is a shame.

made an impact though. Got Flintoff caught behind despite missing the ball by a foot

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I'll say it again, with the ball Mark Craig won us more games than Daniel Vettori did.

I'm not going to find evidence to support it, because it might not be true. However, Vettori barely ever did the business in the final innings whereas Craig did on a couple of occasions. Percentage wise at least, Craig was crucial to a higher proportion of wins.

 

[Mike5181]

Even in 97-01 when Vettori's numbers were better, he really only had success against half the teams he played against. Australia, England, Sri Lanka he did well against, but India, South Africa, Zimbabwe he struggled.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I definitely thought the Kiwibros would love Vettori more, given his service....

 

[Athlai]

I'm not going to find evidence to support it, because it might not be true.

Get this man into politics.

Pews even liked it

 

[Chin Music]

Was the youngest ever spinner to reach 100 test wickets and had lovely loop and flight. Unfortunately had really bad back injuries and became more of a defensive stock bowler (economical) who could no longer take 4th innings wickets, but developed into the best no 8 of all time with the bat.

Although I did wonder about whether he looked a better bowler in his early years, this actually doesn't quite stack up. I looked back at his record up until the end of 2006 and there was practically no difference in his record up to that point compared with the practically 8 more years he had in and out of the NZ team. I did think he looked a better bowler with his more side on action and marked drift and dip but it doesn't really work.

 

[Spikey]

I definitely thought the Kiwibros would love Vettori more, given his service....

it says a lot about the character of our kiwi posters

 

[ataraxia]

it says a lot about the character of our kiwi posters

Yep we're always modest about our own players

 

[SeamUp]

I enjoyed watching him more as he matured. Not flashy or an excitingly big turner but he had those little subtleties I appreciated. Couldn't quite get to the pitch (how he got it to drop) and learnt to read batsmen who wanted to use their feet. Particularly tough to get away in ODI cricket compared to when he was younger.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

This is why an offie with a decent arm ball can clean up in mid-level club cricket

You try to tell these guys "he's bowling straight balls, treat him like a slow medium pacer and if he loops one up that's the change up" but they just can't figure it out and by the end of the day the left-arm spinner has trapped in front 4 right handers who missed straight ones

my greatest regret in cricket is not switching to left-arm orthodox. Did it for a bit in social cricket when I had a side strain and fmd it's bowling on easy mode. Jarrod Kimber had a great answer to the question of 'Why don't left arm spinners bowl doosras' which was just 'why would you bother when your stock ball brings every mode of dismissal into play by default?'.

 

[TheJediBrah]

my greatest regret in cricket is not switching to left-arm orthodox. Did it for a bit in social cricket when I had a side strain and fmd it's bowling on easy mode. Jarrod Kimber had a great answer to the question of 'Why don't left arm spinners bowl doosras' which was just 'why would you bother when your stock ball brings every mode of dismissal into play by default?'.

Finger spin is also such an easy skill to pick up and be decently effective at, with minimal time investment. Even at grade level. It's why so many part timers or "all rounders" just decide one day to bowl finger spin and get away with it.

Couple that with being a lefty and why wouldn't you

 

[Chin Music]

my greatest regret in cricket is not switching to left-arm orthodox. Did it for a bit in social cricket when I had a side strain and fmd it's bowling on easy mode. Jarrod Kimber had a great answer to the question of 'Why don't left arm spinners bowl doosras' which was just 'why would you bother when your stock ball brings every mode of dismissal into play by default?'.

I get that entirely if you are bowling left-arm round to a right-hander. You only need one to slide on without turning and you can do that without one that goes the other way. I Guess there is more of an issue bowling left-arm over to a left hander. That's when you probably need a bit more variety. I am a very much out to pasture left arm wrist spinner.

 

[straw man]

Vettori's career stats definitely don't do him justice, as his core skills improved immensely over the course of his career.

Also bowled handy part-time spin.

 

[h_hurricane]

Vettori was what @subshakerz thinks Jadeja is.

 

[Jumno]

Vettori's career stats definitely don't do him justice, as his core skills improved immensely over the course of his career.

Also bowled handy part-time spin.

He was I'm sure a commentator said New Zealand best batsman.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I get that entirely if you are bowling left-arm round to a right-hander. You only need one to slide on without turning and you can do that without one that goes the other way. I Guess there is more of an issue bowling left-arm over to a left hander. That's when you probably need a bit more variety. I am a very much out to pasture left arm wrist spinner.

The proportion of left handed batsmen in club cricket is less than 20% so there isn't much incentive to innovate.

 

[Flem274*]

After his back injury he definitely became a bowler who needed good bowlers around him to be dangerous in tests because he could combine with Bond or Cairns or whoever to dial up the pressure cooker.

Given NZ struggled to keep anyone remotely promising on the park during his career, his reinvention as a genuine allrounder was incredibly timely.

If you bumped his career to be a current day player, he still cruises into the side. In fact he would make some of our batting line ups pretty ridiculous. His bowling is exactly what spin you want in NZ since 2013 and in Asia he would still assist the overall better attack.

Good player who was vital to keeping NZ above associate level under his leadership stint and would still be a net gain for NZ today. I'm still a bit miffed his move to #6 and subsequent 98 against Aus then coincided with a practically career ending injury.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Is late career Vettori a better bowler than current Glenn Phillips

 

[_Ed_]

It's also worth noting that one of my favourite moments of Vettori's career was his fielding - this nonchalantly awesome catch in the 2015 World Cup.