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Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of batsmen poll

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
And when I complain about Ponting, I am the bad guy.....
When did I say it's a bad thing that he has gone from 18th to 13th? Im just surprised how the poll has fluctuated in just 2 yrs.. (moving up or down 2-3 spots is understandable but potentially 5 spots is wow)

IMHO Kallis is definitely top 15 as I rate some of the old timers (pre 1960s) a little less than others on CW.
 

OverratedSanity

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After Larwood, a very good argument could be made that Don also haven't played any better pacers, with due respect.
This is also not true ftr. Larwood, Voce, Tate, Farnes, Bowes, Bedser were all pretty good (but not ATG ) fast /medium pace bowlers who **** all over any non-Cowie pace bowler Hammond faced.

Bradman also averaged a billion so he gets a little benefit of doubt. If you want to be a flat track bully and pile on runs against not so great attacks, you'd better average 99.94 and not a mere 56. This is not the resume of a top 10 batsman at all.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
When did I say it's a bad thing that he has gone from 18th to 13th? Im just surprised how the poll has fluctuated in just 2 yrs.. (moving up or down 2-3 spots is understandable but potentially 5 spots is wow)

IMHO Kallis is definitely top 15 as I rate some of old timers a little less than others on CW.
Fair enough then.
 

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
This is also not true ftr. Larwood, Voce, Tate, Farnes, Bowes, Bedser were all pretty good (but not ATG ) fast /medium pace bowlers who **** all over any non-Cowie pace bowler Hammond faced.

Bradman also averaged a billion so he gets a little benefit of doubt. If you want to be a flat track bully and pile on runs against not so great attacks, you'd better average 99.94 and not a mere 56. This is not the resume of a top 10 batsman at all.
AWTA.

I genuinely find it hard to rate Bradman's batting contemporaries as they really sucked especially in piling it on. If Ponting or Smith were playing back then, they'd have averaged 75+ imo.
 

OverratedSanity

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Hammond should barely squeak into a top 15 tbh. We put so much more scrutiny to modern batsmen's records, it's completely ridiculous and does my head in. Imagine if Sachin made 40% of his runs against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. He'd rightly be called a minnow basher and wouldn't be put alongside Lara.

Although who knows maybe @capt_Luffy would be going "B-b-but Tendulkar faced Zimbabwe great Henry olonga" smh.
 

kyear2

International Coach
You play what you get. If he played and failed against the best bowlers, I can understand. But why do you penalize someone for the opposition not having atg bowlers?
He really struggled in the Caribbean though, and even expressed his discomfort vs the quick short stuff.
 

OverratedSanity

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He really struggled in the Caribbean though, and even expressed his discomfort vs the quick short stuff.
It's not even about that for me. If there are other great players who have similar-ish records but had to get their runs against better opposition, then surely they deserve to be ranked higher. It's just basic stuff.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Hammond should barely squeak into a top 15 tbh. We put so much more scrutiny to modern batsmen's records, it's completely ridiculous and does my head in. Imagine if Sachin made 40% of his runs against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. He'd rightly be called a minnow basher and wouldn't be put alongside Lara.

Although who knows maybe @capt_Luffy would be going "B-b-but Tendulkar faced Zimbabwe great Henry olonga" smh.
I mean, if you think Jack Cowie is the equivalent of Henry Olonga and Amar Singh and Mohammad Nissar are not among the Top 10 mid War pacers, and ofcourse a 50+ average against the "minnows" Australia; then I can't really complain much. Really, think once before posting; it was ****ing **** comparison and you know that.
 
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capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
This is also not true ftr. Larwood, Voce, Tate, Farnes, Bowes, Bedser were all pretty good (but not ATG ) fast /medium pace bowlers who **** all over any non-Cowie pace bowler Hammond faced.

Bradman also averaged a billion so he gets a little benefit of doubt. If you want to be a flat track bully and pile on runs against not so great attacks, you'd better average 99.94 and not a mere 56. This is not the resume of a top 10 batsman at all.
Voce bowled most of his career outside Bodyline left arm orthodox, Bedser, Tate and Allen are medium pacers; and you could definitely argue for Nissar and Amar Singh over Bowes and Farnes.
 

Bolo.

International Captain
One bowler doesn't make an attack tbf. And I don't agree that those bowlers have bowled at ATG level in SA except the odd test.

And a fast bowler own their own can only bowl about 20 overs in a day. Even if at times 1 of them have stood up, the overall strength of Indian attacks hasn't been great over the course of his career. Mediocre usually. Only since 2017 have India been sending good overall attacks to SA.

Pakistan meanwhile have sent better attacks (better pacers) and it kinda reflects in his avg of 40 against them with just 1 hundred in 17 innings. Pakistan pacers were often quicker and more skillful imo.

Australian pacers even moreso. And he really struggled against them. Australians are most used to SA conditions and therefore facing them was something close to facing his own attack. Avg of 33 with only 2 hundreds in 26 innings.

Having said all that, he has succeeded against England at home! (despite his away struggles against them). And they have often had good attacks.
The Indian attacks were very much not great in his time. They had some standout performances though. 3 of the 6 most memorable tours from visiting quicks for me were Indian. Overall, their bowling performances were on part with all the best touring attacks countries (except Aus), and would have been better if Kallis wasn't spanking them.
 

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