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Debate thread for 2024 Ranking of batsmen poll

Victor Ian

Victor Ian

International Coach
**** me - crediting a batsman in a series because he was wrongly chopped off a couple of times. I rarely hear about pooing on them for the series where they got lucky. (except Vogues)
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
on George Headley (I was about to slip and write Dean Headley lol), read the chapter on him in CLR James Beyond a Boundary. You see what a colossus he was.

In fact, if cricket history (esp with political and cultural history intermixed) is an interest, Beyond a Boundary is a must read. Funnily enough, when I met my wife who is an academic with no interest in cricket, her only knowledge of the sport came from that book and I scored serious street cred for having read it.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
George Headley played his whole career for team that wasn't Test standard. He was termed "Atlas" for a reason. He might not have got many Test opportunities, but he scored those runs spread over a decent chunk of time. In FC matches in England, Headley have the best average of any player to score 2000 runs after Don, more than even any Englishman. I firmly believe, had he played 40-50 matches, he would be in my Top 7. Dravid and Waugh are great batsman and I rate them higher than most here, but what Headley achieved batting with that lineup in his limited opportunities is phenomenal. @Sunil1z
 
S

Socerer 01

International Captain
Line and Length said:
Likely rising two places on the 2022 poll and being listed in the Top 10 ATG is "getting **** on"?
I have explained why I avoid ranking current players as highly as others. How do you justify this comment?
Click to expand...
found this question interesting so here goes a more expanded answer

pardon me if im being harsh but whats the point of having a poll in 2024 just 2 years after 2022 if you’re reticent to vote for active players and if some others are either barring for voting them in or adding in hypothetical declines to try and rank them ‘accurately’? why is there such a huge reluctance to rank an active great just by their achievements till now??

the other oldies have all finished their careers, we have access to all of their relevant achievements, stats and we’re unlikely to see footage of them that can make us change our minds about them resurface anew. all that would be done is slight variations in the ranking order and maybe someone new comes in because they’re the flavour of that month on this forum or we get a recently retired player judged more fairly if that actually happens

now this doesnt mean im asking to vote Shamar or Jamal on the basis of their debut test series but is it weird to vote Jamieson in on the basis of his 19 tests alone when he’s been atg level for those 19 tests while having played against 6 teams in 4 different countries without considering the hypothetical “what if he loses his limbs tomorrow”

sure it may look silly if he doesnt keep it up by 2026 and it may look sillier if he retired in 2027 for the 2028 poll but that at least results in more dynamic polls in the first place? a discussion of “damn, we had Jamieson at 20 in 2024 but now he’s just 48 2 years later, look at how times change eh” is just 1 eg of far more compelling discussion than “well akshually Viv is a chad because he D O M I N A T E D attax and so I rate him better than Gavaskar” every 2-4 years in different variations

it runs the risk of voting in a Voges like character at their very short peak in a specific year poll but thats easily gone in the next poll by the time said character is retired or not playing and we all laugh over it. yet again more variable discussion rather than the same stale debates carried from the atg threads and the comparison threads about the same old players in just different tones

thank you for the question as i found it interesting enough to ponder all this even if my view is unlikely to ever be popular on here :)
 
Line and Length

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
I appreciate your response which I found both interesting and insightful.
With regard to my running a poll so soon after the 2022 poll, I initially thought every 5 years might be more suitable. However, I received so many requests/queries and suggestions that I jumped in to see if there would be as many changes as some suggested. Plus I aim to please. :laugh:
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
Does Kyle Jamieson even make a NZ first XI? What are we talking about here.

and it was a meme ranking last time

when the dust settles on Smith’s career, consensus will be behind Lara and probably Ponting
 
0

_00_deathscar

International Regular
subshakerz said:
Pretty astonishing to me that Smith also isn't a lock in the top half dozen. Undisouted best of his time, good to great record everywhere, ATG series, averaging 75 plus in his peak, I mean what exactly is he lacking here?
Click to expand...
At the very top he may have some question marks.
The ban actually came at a good time for him (arguably), he looked dodgy in that SA series and then the pitches especially since then have been spicier for sure, when he has struggled to cash in except vs weaker opponents at home. He had the incredible Ashes series in that but otherwise he’s definitely in a slump. That he had an insane peak and his “trough” is still averaging 40 ish speaks to why he’s in that general top echelon and not closer to Kohli.
 
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