Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

[Xix2565]

I'm surprised he doesn't have any 5-fers.

Was held back by his team smh. Also Australians didn't like to throw their wickets away to him for some weird reason I don't quite understand.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Not all pitches in the subcontinent, or all pitches in fast bowling friendly countries are the same. So in that case the evaluation by countries generally shouldn't matter as much because the conditions present when the player played should be taken into account. Pitches in the past in certain countries weren't as they are now and that should be remembered when it comes to saying X player did well in Y country.

This is a Good Post.

It's difficult to do a proper comparison of two players records in certain countries in the same era, let alone when posters do it for two players separated by several decades. Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Spark]

And we are back. It was fun while it lasted.


Here is a question to the mods - Over the last 2 years, every single bloody damn time someone has had something complementary to say about Indian cricket, Ashwin, Jadeja or the current side, this guy has literally popped up in every thread arguing the same nonsense over and over again, even though it has been conclusively proven that his "logic" is always wrong and he only shifts goalposts. Yet, it is page after page of the same nonsense. And then he comes here to pontificate with a crony that "the other side" are too rigid in their position.

The point about Ashwin being an ATG was already answered very clearly very early in the thread. All salty has to do is post his opinion and move on, but no, we can't have that. It has to be page after page of the same biased insecure idiotic hatred full nonsense.


@subshakerz - simple advice to you. You have said what you feel. Move on and let others discuss the topic as its clear there is no rationality in your discussions on this topic. Is it really that difficult?

And FWIW, I never engaged with anyone who thinks only the top 3 spinners belong in their ATG llist, although I do think Ash has a pretty arguable case even then. The only engagement here was with two people who posted the same insecure idiocy coz they cant stomach the success and greatness of the player in question.

You do know that throwing in stuff like "biased insecure idiotic hatred full nonsense" and "no rationality" achieves, like, the exact opposite of what you want it to achieve, right? Beyond anything else it just prolongs arguments indefinitely because almost anyone is going to want to have some riposte to stuff like that.

My previous post on the matter stands. The standard for "cricket opinions so **** that they might as well be trolling" is the halba rule and we're well short of that, subshakerz as far as I can tell always brings some level of argument and attempts to substantiate his positions, as do you. There have been far too many personal attacks thrown around by both he and you and frankly everyone else involved in this debate; allegations of ulterior motives by all (which is something I always despise) and the noxious anti-thinking of "you just believe that because _____" have been far too frequent.

Like, if I was to start going all bad cop in this thread I would start by enforcing this rule, which surely at this point everyone should be well aware of.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea can’t compare away records for players from the current era to away records for players from the 2000s. Completely different eras.

 

[Spark]

It's difficult to do a proper comparison of two players records in certain countries in the same era, let alone when posters do it for two players separated by several decades. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Yeah even something as seemingly straightforward as record in Australia or India in the 2010s is fraught with risk. A seventy on one of the more recent minefields/greentops that have popped up in both countries lately may well be worth just as much if not more than a score double that on some of the early 2010s roads.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I wouldnt call a 42 average in Australia fine. Its like calling Ponting in India fine because he had two decent tours towards the end, yet all here call him a failure.

Ponting had two 'decent tours'; post 2015, Ashwin averages sub 30 in Australia and has 3 genuinely good performances, resulting in a series victory. Honestly, I don't think even you would say that Ponting in India and Ashwin in Australia are equal..... And let's be honest, his average in England really flatters him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yea can’t compare away records for players from the current era to away records for players from the 2000s. Completely different eras.

You can't even compare away records for two players in the same era 1v 1. You compare the pitches Smith has batted on in SA vs the ones Kohli has and it'd be ridiculous to say they've faced a similar kind of challenge just because they played "in SA" .

People should put in effort to try and look up what kind of pitches players actually played on and what the quality of their actual performance was instead of just looking at averages.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

You can't even compare away records for two players in the same era 1v 1. You compare the pitches Smith has batted on in SA vs the ones Kohli has and it'd be ridiculous to say they've faced a similar kind of challenge just because they played "in SA" .

People should put in effort to try and look up what kind of pitches players actually played on and what the quality of their actual performance was instead of just looking at averages.

This is a good point

 

[Bolo.]

I absolutely think Kallis has a casefor the greatest ever all rounder and Wasim would open my attack.

And no SENA was created on this board and certain sections of the media to reflect the fears of a certain generation of Indian fan. It’s not a location, a country, a common environment for cricket (neither is the SC btw). No Australian orSouth African or even English fan differentiates so much about how their players do away from home.

I think you will find that 100% of the South Africans who regularly post in this kind of discussion on CW are more obsessed with home/away than pretty much anyone else on this site.

TBF though, 100% is just me.

 

[Starfighter]

How the hell does this thread have this many pages in four and a half days?

 

[capt_Luffy]

How the hell does this thread have this many pages in four and a half days?

Oh believe me, you don't want to know.....

 

[Line and Length]

How the hell does this thread have this many pages in four and a half days?

At least it replaced "Ashwin - The ATG Spinner". That thread's title left no room for debate. Even using "The" instead of "An" suggested he was THE ATG.

 

[Socerer 01]

You can't even compare away records for two players in the same era 1v 1. You compare the pitches Smith has batted on in SA vs the ones Kohli has and it'd be ridiculous to say they've faced a similar kind of challenge just because they played "in SA" .

People should put in effort to try and look up what kind of pitches players actually played on and what the quality of their actual performance was instead of just looking at averages.

i cant believe that it took 54 pages for this simple logic to be an uncontroversial opinion lmao

 

[Socerer 01]

This is a Good Post.

its also what @Xix2565 has been saying all along in different ways but the last times he did he got called everything from “you’re disrespecting THE GREATS!! THE GREATS!!!” to “you don’t know cricket”

 

[subshakerz]

spot atgs on this list pls

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None.

 

[Socerer 01]

You can't even compare away records for two players in the same era 1v 1. You compare the pitches Smith has batted on in SA vs the ones Kohli has and it'd be ridiculous to say they've faced a similar kind of challenge just because they played "in SA" .

People should put in effort to try and look up what kind of pitches players actually played on and what the quality of their actual performance was instead of just looking at averages.

just to add on to this, we have had 4 of the last 7 5fers taken by spinners in the last 10 years all happen in this NZ summer, in a country where the home team frequently doesnt play any spinner and where their spinner who took a 10fer in 1 innings away doesnt even have 1 wicket. to add further context the ones who took a 5fer include a debutant captain all-rounder, a batting all-rounder who has only been bowling at international standard for the last few years and a dude who a few years ago chose to emigrate to the USA

yet we had someone bring up Lyon taking a 5fer here as a sign of his “SENA greatness” and compare it with Ashwin’s lack of similar success in NZ to creative a narrative to support their views rather than try and find out the context or truth and there’s been too much of this going on from both sides of the argument

 

[subshakerz]

You can't even compare away records for two players in the same era 1v 1. You compare the pitches Smith has batted on in SA vs the ones Kohli has and it'd be ridiculous to say they've faced a similar kind of challenge just because they played "in SA" .

People should put in effort to try and look up what kind of pitches players actually played on and what the quality of their actual performance was instead of just looking at averages.

Of course you can compare for the same era but most of us do contextualise if it's close, look at the attacks they faced, pitches, etc. hence why Dravid 2011 in Eng is brought up in arguments and not Dravid 2002 in Eng.

 

[subshakerz]

yet we had someone bring up Lyon taking a 5fer here as a sign of his “SENA greatness” and compare it with Ashwin’s lack of similar success in NZ to creative a narrative to support their views rather than try and find out the context or truth and there’s been too much of this going on from both sides of the argument

Ashwin has 1 test in NZ. Don't think he is being slammed for lack of success there specifically by anyone.

 

[Socerer 01]

Ashwin has 1 test in NZ. Don't think he is being slammed for lack of success there specifically by anyone.

dude

Lyon winning games in NZ and showing Ashwin how it's done in SENA...

 

[ashley bach]

How the hell does this thread have this many pages in four and a half days?

Cricweb is simply overflowing with cricket nerds obviously.