Might be better with just top 7 batsmen. Perhaps harder, though.
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A comparison of Test bowlers with 300 wickets
- Thread starter Archer6K
- Start date
And McGrath, if anything, is underrated. Although maybe that speaks to how much his batsmen dominated the opposition seamers.
Coronis
International Coach
I mean yeah take it all with a grain of salt. Lots of teams going back didn’t even necessarily have “proper” batsmen down to 6, let alone 7.
Zaheer Khan is the worst in the list for mine, but that's by the by.
I dunno, I think Daniel Vettori is impossible to rank. He was world class in 2000, then he hit that period around 2001-03 where our pitches were moss blankets, and the word I always hear is that his car crash as a teenager meant he had to remodel his action which made him an ODI jet, but lessened his impact as a long-form bowler. He still put together a servicably good Test record despite not really turning it at all, just relying on flight and variation in pace. It all needs to be factored in, as well, that later in his career he was the coach, captain, best batsman, IPL, playing all formats etc. That doesn't give him a free pass to not be ranked, but very few have had to carry the burden Dan did.
Having said all that, the argument is pretty comfortable when a country's No.1 spinner averages 37 in the fourth innings. And by some weird quirk, averages 29 in the second and 35+ in all other three.
Coronis
International Coach
Alrighty and heres the others
Headley: 60.83, others 27.41, 122% better
May: 46.77, others 24.23, 93% better
Barrington: 58.67, others 30.52, 92% better
Miandad: 52.57, others 27.51, 91% better
Pollock: 60.97, others 32.07, 90% better
Weekes: 58.61, others 31.41, 87% better
Sangakkara: 57.40, others 31.16, 84% better
Kallis: 55.37, others 30.34, 82% better
Chappell: 53.86, others 29.66, 82% better
Flower: 51.54, others 28.57, 80% better
Williamson: 55.25, others 30.67, 80% better
Kohli: 49.15, others 28.32, 74% better
Chanderpaul: 51.37, others 29.98, 71% better
Root: 49.68, others 29.00, 71% better
Compton: 50.06, others 29.25, 71% better
Border: 50.56, others 29.96, 69% better
Waugh: 51.06, others 30.31, 68% better
Walcott: 56.68, others 34.00, 67% better
de Villiers: 50.66, others 30.40, 67% better
Younis: 52.05, others 31.41, 66% better
Ponting: 51.85, others 31.51, 65% better
Boycott: 47.72, others 29.02, 64% better
Nourse: 53.81, others 32.77, 64% better
Greenidge: 44.72, others 27.43, 63% better
Hayden: 50.73, others 31.44, 61% better
Worrell: 49.48, others 30.66, 61% better
Dravid: 52.31, others 32.93, 59% better
Simpson: 46.81, others 30.74, 52% better
Crowe: 45.36, others 29.84, 52% better
Trumper: 39.04, others 25.95, 50% better
Smith: 48.25, others 32.12, 50% better
Hill: 39.21, others 26.12, 50% better
Sehwag: 49.34, others 34.20, 44% better
Tamim: 38.89, others 32.39, 20% better
Unsurprising Headley would top the list after Bradman. May having worse batting conditions than Hill and Trumper is crazy.
Headley: 60.83, others 27.41, 122% better
May: 46.77, others 24.23, 93% better
Barrington: 58.67, others 30.52, 92% better
Miandad: 52.57, others 27.51, 91% better
Pollock: 60.97, others 32.07, 90% better
Weekes: 58.61, others 31.41, 87% better
Sangakkara: 57.40, others 31.16, 84% better
Kallis: 55.37, others 30.34, 82% better
Chappell: 53.86, others 29.66, 82% better
Flower: 51.54, others 28.57, 80% better
Williamson: 55.25, others 30.67, 80% better
Kohli: 49.15, others 28.32, 74% better
Chanderpaul: 51.37, others 29.98, 71% better
Root: 49.68, others 29.00, 71% better
Compton: 50.06, others 29.25, 71% better
Border: 50.56, others 29.96, 69% better
Waugh: 51.06, others 30.31, 68% better
Walcott: 56.68, others 34.00, 67% better
de Villiers: 50.66, others 30.40, 67% better
Younis: 52.05, others 31.41, 66% better
Ponting: 51.85, others 31.51, 65% better
Boycott: 47.72, others 29.02, 64% better
Nourse: 53.81, others 32.77, 64% better
Greenidge: 44.72, others 27.43, 63% better
Hayden: 50.73, others 31.44, 61% better
Worrell: 49.48, others 30.66, 61% better
Dravid: 52.31, others 32.93, 59% better
Simpson: 46.81, others 30.74, 52% better
Crowe: 45.36, others 29.84, 52% better
Trumper: 39.04, others 25.95, 50% better
Smith: 48.25, others 32.12, 50% better
Hill: 39.21, others 26.12, 50% better
Sehwag: 49.34, others 34.20, 44% better
Tamim: 38.89, others 32.39, 20% better
Unsurprising Headley would top the list after Bradman. May having worse batting conditions than Hill and Trumper is crazy.
shortpitched713
International Captain
In looking at the "worst bowler" out of this list, I think it is getting confounded with bowler who bowled the worst.
For me though, Botham at -1% average difference is getting off kind of scot free, because while he's certainly not the "worst bowler" out of this list, I'd argue he clearly bowled the worst, during his 2nd half career period of sending down some real dross.
For me though, Botham at -1% average difference is getting off kind of scot free, because while he's certainly not the "worst bowler" out of this list, I'd argue he clearly bowled the worst, during his 2nd half career period of sending down some real dross.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Yet another measure in which Tendulkar falls far behind all of the modern middle order batsmen rivals that I've said outperform or could edge him out in value. He's also a virtual dead heat with my top 2 opening batsmen in Gavaskar and Hayden, while having the advantage of being in the middle order. But I've always been the crazy one in saying his overall performance was not as dominant as some of his rivals, whereas all other posters were sure he stands head and shoulders over everyone else.
And yes, I get that there is a longevity factor here which helps him out. I've never contested that, and have also said if you simply multiply out his value times number of games played, he's almost certainly had the most valuable batsman career of them all. But that's not really how we compare ATGs. They also have to be able to dominant, and assert their will in high leverage games and moments. And there are a number of batsmen I'd take over him to do that, because in a given match they simply were more likely to do so.
Coronis
International Coach
Both pale in comparison to the English big three js js.
Miandad was also one that really surprised me.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Jack Hobbs, John Sutcliffe and James Hutton?
For me, I've always felt that comparisons between them (and Bradman) with more modern eras aren't really valid.
And I always knew that Miandad was a gun. My favorite Pakistani batsman by a margin.
Coronis
International Coach
Jack Hobbs, Jack Sutcliffe and Jack Hutton?
For me, I've always felt that comparisons between them (and Bradman) with more modern eras aren't really valid.
And I always knew that Miandad was a gun. My favorite Pakistani batsman by a margin.
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shortpitched713
International Captain
Your man Barrington does really well here, as does my man Weekes, both of them clearly outperform the other 2 Ws, but not May surprisingly.
Do you have Neil Harvey's stats as well, by any chance, for comparison?
Do you have Neil Harvey's stats as well, by any chance, for comparison?
Coronis
International Coach
Harvey: 48.41, others 27.25, 78% better
shortpitched713
International Captain
So another notch in the belt for the Barrington/Weekes ascendancy.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Play in a weaker lineup and your output will be a higher percentage.
Play in a strong ATG lineup like Ponting (65%) and Hayden (61%), or Tendulkar (62%), Dravid (59%) and Sehwag (44%) and your output will be a lower percentage.
It's not rocket science.
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Coronis
International Coach
Hayden’s being significantly better than Sehwag’s was definitely a surprise for me - though likely due to his bowling attack being far stronger, thus reducing the batting output of opposition teams (and therefore overall batting average).
_00_deathscar
International Regular
His rating there is actually probably hampered by his longevity. It would be interesting to split his same stats for pre 2002 and from then until 2013.
Coronis
International Coach
Nobody said he was, or is trying to argue that.