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A comparison of Test bowlers with 300 wickets

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
100%. But I always thought that was a perverse source of praise for Vettori - "actually he's great, because all of our other spin options are terrible" never made a lot of sense to me.
Was it a sort of praise or simply recognition of the reality? I remember the continual concerns that he wouldn't deliver in the final innings. I also remember about how refreshing it was with Mark Craig (!) that he had actually bowled us to a couple of victories despite his limitations. I guess as well, Vettori did add value with the bat - and was probably at times more reliable than some of our batsman - during the 2nd half of his career.
 

TheJediBrah

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100%. But I always thought that was a perverse source of praise for Vettori - "actually he's great, because all of our other spin options are terrible" never made a lot of sense to me.
it doesn't make sense and I'm not quite sure why it's even being brought up here

Anyway he was still a very good bowler and excellent all rounder
 

thierry henry

International Coach
Anyway he was still a very good bowler
That's the bit that's arguable I guess. He was a passable bowler whose performances roughly matched up with the mid-range of the performances of his teammates and opponents, as these stats show. He had longevity due to a lack of competition in NZ.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Vettori would've done better with DRS and a better bowling lineup. Reckon he's probably still our best spinner of the 2000s but surely every major Test team has at least 1 better in that time (besides the Windies I guess)
 

thierry henry

International Coach
Vettori would've done better with DRS and a better bowling lineup.
NO

Maybe the wheel of "mediocre" seamers with better averages than him would've been assisted by a wicket-taking spinner?

ffs I'm out here making 2007 arguments again
 

TheJediBrah

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His batting was almost more valuable than his bowling, later on. Strangely reliable lower/middle-order player when NZ had a club-level top order

And I know we're only talking Tests but in an alternate universe where white-ball cricket matters Vettori was an absolute gun spin bowler
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
NO

Maybe the wheel of "mediocre" seamers with better averages than him would've been assisted by a wicket-taking spinner?

ffs I'm out here making 2007 arguments again
I think Wagner/Vettori would've been a ****ing insane partnership on our seamy roads.
 

trundler

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it doesn't make sense and I'm not quite sure why it's even being brought up here

Anyway he was still a very good bowler and excellent all rounder
He was the only one worse off than average in that list so worth noting. Vettori is basically the spin bowling equivalent to Boucher so I'm surprised to rate him.
 

OverratedSanity

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He was the only one worse off than average in that list so worth noting. Vettori is basically the spin bowling equivalent to Boucher so I'm surprised to rate him.
Ishant too but he was so crap for so long that it's hardly surprising.
 

TheJediBrah

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He was the only one worse off than average in that list so worth noting. Vettori is basically the spin bowling equivalent to Boucher so I'm surprised to rate him.
That's not what I mean, that part is worth noting. What I don't get is the "his replacements would have been worse so that makes it better" angle
 

TheJediBrah

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I do rate Vettori > Boucher though. As batsmen they are about equal, if anything I rate Vettori slightly higher for playing more important innings.

But Vettori's bowling > Boucher's keeping
 

Flem274*

123/5
Vettori 'feels' better than his stats because his career had 2 parts. Initially he was a good spinner who could use a bat, then after his back injury he was a mid af spinner who became a gun allrounder due to averaging 40+ since about 2005, and playing many high quality knocks. Iirc he did himself a longterm injury in his 98 at the gabba, his final notable test knock.

Playing for a SENA side helped. His spin bowling compares very favorably with the likes of Giles and Boje even post-injury, and he was a much better batsman.

We'd still take either version for NZ. Athlai is right about him and Wagner as a combination, and batting era Vettori would have caused misery with Watling to bat with.
 

_00_deathscar

International Regular
notable spinners:
Underwood: 25.83, others 37.15, 30% better
Jadeja: 24.15, others 34.84, 31% better
Benaud: 27.03, others 32.63, 17% better
Grimmett: 24.21, others 31.12, 22% better
Laker: 21.24, others 29.22, 27% better
Tayfield: 25.91, others 31.52, 18% better
Verity: 24.37, others 36.80, 34% better
But Jadeja only bowls on dust bowls where everyone takes an 8-fer
 

Coronis

International Coach
I might do this for certain batsmen too this weekend if I have the time
Just a sneak peak of this with 11 noted batsmen

Bradman: 99.94, others 29.43, 240% better
Smith: 57.52, others 26.98, 113% better
Hobbs: 56.94, others 28.42, 100% better
Sutcliffe: 60.73, others 30.52, 99% better
Hutton: 56.67, others 29.69, 91% better
Lara: 52.88, others 28.15, 88% better
Hammond: 58.45, others 31.12, 88% better
Sobers: 57.78, others 31.61, 83% better
Richards: 50.23, others 27.50, 83% better
Tendulkar: 53.78, others 33.15, 62% better
Gavaskar: 51.12, others 31.54, 62% better
 

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