How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[_00_deathscar]

Not sure. What if England win the last test, would they have performed better than Australia last year?

Australia have seemed weak at home recently.

And if they don't, has Bazball been a failure because they didn't perform any better than Joe Root carrying the side all by himself in 2022?

 

[_00_deathscar]

It goes back to the same point I make about BazBall, we can rue missed opportunities but those opportunities were only created because of BazBall.

The 2022 side also had lots of 'missed opportunities' where we needed Rohit and Pant mostly but also Washy and Axar and Ashwin to bail us out with the bat. It wasn't as huge a thumping as the 4-1 made it seem (a couple of the tests were 'funny').

Yes, this side has been closer still than that, but it's not due to some miraculous Bazballing - it's because India have been ****.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

The 2022 side also had lots of 'missed opportunities' where we needed Rohit and Pant mostly but also Washy and Axar and Ashwin to bail us out with the bat. It wasn't as huge a thumping as the 4-1 made it seem (a couple of the tests were 'funny').

Yes, this side has been closer still than that, but it's not due to some miraculous Bazballing - it's because India have been ****.

2021* and 3-1*

 

[Sunil1z]

FYI, I'm going to do 5 tests with both of these.

If it is possible , have these venues for the next 4 Test
Chennai
Delhi
Mumbai
Kolkata
These 4 are iconic Indian venues .

 

[Silver Silva]

Not like Sri Lankan is too ahead..... SA still has Bavuma, Markram, Van Der Dussen (if he plays), etc.

Dimuth Karunaratne has more Test hundreds than the entire South African team ..

SA would be favourites to win in their backyard but we've won a series in SA before, would feel confident in taking atleast a test off them in SA , and at home they would be no match for our spinners so it's not too farfetched to have us equal to SA with all due respect.

 

[_00_deathscar]

possibly but Kuldeep played like 6 tests in 2016-19 where as Ishant was a regular and the 4th most active bowler in that period

Ishant is also very underrated imo for how important he was in bowling long spells and still be threatening, imo we havent replaced him still and the side is suffering for it. i would even take him ahead of Shami

edit: looking at the statistics Ishant has 0.4 average better with better economy and worse strike rate. its very close either way

Not sure about ahead of Shami, but that reason is also why Walsh should walk into the West Indian team for an Indian series. Not sure how he did in Pakistan/SL or across the other subcontinent, but his ability to be a workhorse while still a wicket taking aggressive bowler is impressive.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

What about the Aussie debutant spinners in 2023?

Todd Murphy is very good

 

[_00_deathscar]

Scorecards:
View attachment 39388


View attachment 39390

https://gyazo.com/9109104eda829d98b3e60f6d3b323472

Well at least the sim gets it right that Pant, Jadeja and Ashwin will outscore the top 5.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Dimuth Karunaratne has more Test hundreds than the entire South African team ..

SA would be favourites to win in their backyard but we've won a series in SA before, would feel confident in taking atleast a test off them in SA , and at home they would be no match for our spinners so it's not too farfetched to have us equal to SA with all due respect.

I didn't said that SL and SA being equal is far-fetched; just that I believe if they play on a neutral venue, SA will be the favourites due to having a World Class pace attack in Rabada, Ngidi, Nortje, Jansen and co.

 

[Slifer]

I didn't said that SL and SA being equal is far-fetched; just that I believe if they play on a neutral venue, SA will be the favourites due to having a World Class pace attack in Rabada, Ngidi, Nortje, Jansen and co.

Wait a minute didn't SL win in RSA not too long ago? Upset of the century!! Looked it up, was way back in 2019. Guess both teams have digressed a lot since then. Still I did say SL >/=.Maybe they're about even.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Wait a minute didn't SL win in RSA not too long ago? Upset of the century!! Looked it up, was way back in 2019. Guess both teams have digressed a lot since then. Still I did say SL >/=.Maybe they're about even.

Yeah, the series in which Kusal Perera played arguably the greatest innings of all time. And for once, that South Africa with Elgar, Markram, Amla, du Plessis, Bavuma, de Kock, Steyn, Rabada, Philander, Maharaj and Olivier is actually a really really great team as opposed to the current one.....

 

[Silver Silva]

I didn't said that SL and SA being equal is far-fetched; just that I believe if they play on a neutral venue, SA will be the favourites due to having a World Class pace attack in Rabada, Ngidi, Nortje, Jansen and co.

Depends where that neutral venue is , anywhere in Asia , West Indies or Zimbabwe I feel we would be favourites , Australia/New Zealand/England I think Sa would be favourites..

Even where SA are favourites..there batting is so weak that it could come down to a shoot out..
I mean none of their batting line-up averages over 40 which has been further weakened by the retirement of Elgar who was one of the main reasons why they didn't lose to India this year

 

[capt_Luffy]

Depends where that neutral venue is , anywhere in Asia , West Indies or Zimbabwe I feel we would be favourites , Australia/New Zealand/England I think Sa would be favourites..

Even where SA are favourites..there batting is so weak that it could come down to a shoot out..
I mean none of their batting line-up averages over 40 which has been further weakened by the retirement of Elgar who was one of the main reasons why they didn't lose to SA.

Fair enough. I probably over valued the South African bowling a bit.

 

[kyear2]

Genuinely interested as to where they would place this Indian team among the pantheon of great teams.

There's the Australia 2002 - 2007 unit

West indies 1976 - 1988 unit

The invincibles

The South Africa pre ban team and also the 2000's one.

 

[Slifer]

Genuinely interested as to where they would place this Indian team among the pantheon of great teams.

There's the Australia 2002 - 2007 unit

West indies 1976 - 1988 unit

The invincibles

The South Africa pre ban team and also the 2000's one.

Imo of the teams I've seen I'd go:

Australia 2000s/WI latw70s/80s
India (Kohli)
RSA (Faf)
Pak 80s
Eng (Strauss)

I say seen because it's purely speculative for me regarding the Invincibles, WI 60s etc.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Genuinely interested as to where they would place this Indian team among the pantheon of great teams.

There's the Australia 2002 - 2007 unit

West indies 1976 - 1988 unit

The invincibles

The South Africa pre ban team and also the 2000's one.

I think barely top 5. The invincibles, WI of late 70s and 80s and early 2000s Australia are head and shoulders above everyone else. The SA pre ban didn't really achieved much; it was great on paper but has only played against Australia and England; and never faced WI who were already a dominant force. 2000s SA was good, but record wise they hardly won away and lost to Australia and England at home; 2012-18 SA is much better, though they lost to England at home and ended their run by losing to Sri Lanka. Some other team I think are Armstrong's Australia, the English team of the 20s, 50s and under Strauss, Pakistan of mid to late 80s and WI of 60s.

 

[Coronis]

I think barely top 5. The invincibles, WI of late 70s and 80s and early 2000s Australia are head and shoulders above everyone else. The SA pre ban didn't really achieved much; it was great on paper but has only played against Australia and England; and never faced WI who were already a dominant force. 2000s SA was good, but record wise they hardly won away and lost to Australia and England at home; 2012-18 SA is much better, though they lost to England at home and ended their run by losing to Sri Lanka. Some other team I think are Armstrong's Australia, the English team of the 20s, 50s and under Strauss, Pakistan of mid to late 80s and WI of 60s.

I’m sorry what?

Last 4 test series for the Windies prior to SA’s ban…

3 Test series in England 1969 - lost 0-2
3 Test series in New Zealand 1969 - drawn 1-1
5 Test series in Australia 1968-69 - lost 1-3
5 Test series in England 1968 - lost 0-1

They were quality in the early to mid 60’s but by the time SA was rising they were very clearly on the decline.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I’m sorry what?

Last 4 test series for the Windies prior to SA’s ban…

3 Test series in England 1969 - lost 0-2
3 Test series in New Zealand 1969 - drawn 1-1
5 Test series in Australia 1968-69 - lost 1-3
5 Test series in England 1968 - lost 0-1

They were quality in the early to mid 60’s but by the time SA was rising they were very clearly on the decline.

If we have to rate the SA team, we have to the one from mid 60s; when WI were dominant. That SA never rose..... They never played WI, India or Pakistan; New Zealand after '66 and England after the Oliveira fiasco. Australia was a good team back then, but really not a team on defeating whom you can term them best in the World. Simply put, the World champion SA just never came around.....

 

[Coronis]

If we have to rate the SA team, we have to the one from mid 60s; when WI were dominant. That SA never rose..... They never played WI, India or Pakistan; New Zealand after '66 and England after the Oliveira fiasco. Australia was a good team back then, but really not a team on defeating whom you can term them best in the World. Simply put, the World champion SA just never came around.....

Yeah no in the latter half of the 60’s Australia and England were the best teams (besides SA). SA beat them both, in their limited opportunities (self inflicted of course), they were clearly seen as the best team in the world at the time of their exclusion. Windies were experiencing a brief lull between their early 60’s dominance and then we all know what happened.

 

[subshakerz]

90s SA team also very good.