How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[Slifer]

So, so, wrong on this. Of the past attacks from the 80s, only the WI/PAK attacks can be said to be unequivocally better. Rest are far weaker even accounting for the occasional great bowler, and also less teams makes for a slightly weaker competition in general.

So you think Hadlee and Chatfield plus Willis, Botham and Hendricks are "far weaker" than Boult, Wagner and Southee plus Broad and Anderson? Ok.

India now is much better than before but that's similar to WI now vs the past. The thing is none of those 80s bowling were complete as diabolical as teams like Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Ireland and Zimbabwe.

At least you were smart enough not to even mention the 90s. I'll give you that.

 

[Slifer]

The breaking point for me was when he said that India would win, but in a repeat tour, Australia and WI would be favourites....

So you guys need to take up your grief with other poster because from the get go I've said India would win.

 

[capt_Luffy]

So you guys need to take up your grief with other poster because from the get go I've said India would win.

What grief have I given you??

 

[Socerer 01]

I assume by past you mean the 80s. Because bowling in the 90s craps all over current attacks. Even in the 80s, idk that bowling now is much better.

Besides the WI attack,

Australia: Alderman, McDermott, Reid (Lillee until 1982)

Eng : Willis, Hendricks, Botham
Ind: Dev
NZ: Hadlee, Chatfield
Pak: Imran, Safraz, Tauseef, Qasim, Wasim

The only thing I'd say is the 80s had no great spinners like Ashwin or Jadeja but the bowling now is not a class above any of the ones listed.

uh what

okay let me list out the bowlers in that 2016-19 period

Aus: Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon
Eng: Broad, Anderson
Ind: Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Ashwin, Jadeja, Umesh
NZ: Wagner, Boult, Southee
Pak: Abbas
SA: Philander, Morkel, Steyn, Rabada
SL: Herath
WI: Gabriel, Holder, Roach
Ban: Shakib

im still omitting players like Bhuvi, Olivier, O’Keefe, Kuldeep and Pattinson who didnt play as much due to being backup or injuries

 

[Socerer 01]

So you think Hadlee and Chatfield plus Willis, Botham and Hendricks are "far weaker" than Boult, Wagner and Southee plus Broad and Anderson? Ok.

India now is much better than before but that's similar to WI now vs the past. The thing is none of those 80s bowling were complete as diabolical as teams like Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Ireland and Zimbabwe.

At least you were smart enough not to even mention the 90s. I'll give you that.

there’s no way 80s SL was as good as Bangladesh’s bowling of today, you’re underselling the Bangladeshi bowling attack significantly

 

[Slifer]

uh what

okay let me list out the bowlers in that 2016-19 period

Aus: Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon
Eng: Broad, Anderson
Ind: Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Ashwin, Jadeja, Umesh
NZ: Wagner, Boult, Southee
Pak: Abbas
SA: Philander, Morkel, Steyn, Rabada
SL: Herath
WI: Gabriel, Holder, Roach
Ban: Shakib

im still omitting players like Bhuvi, Olivier, O’Keefe, Kuldeep and Pattinson who didnt play as much due to being backup or injuries

Umm you literally said "current" attacks. Therefore many of the above for you do not count.

 

[Xix2565]

So you think Hadlee and Chatfield plus Willis, Botham and Hendricks are "far weaker" than Boult, Wagner and Southee plus Broad and Anderson? Ok.

India now is much better than before but that's similar to WI now vs the past. The thing is none of those 80s bowling were complete as diabolical as teams like Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Ireland and Zimbabwe.

At least you were smart enough not to even mention the 90s. I'll give you that.

Of course. This was literally a golden generation for NZ, and Broad/Anderson backed up by an array of seamers have been pretty good at home as well.

I think this is still nostalgia blinding you and you not bothering to even try to make an actual argument with evidence, but I suppose we have to humor people now and then.

I didn't mention it because I focused on the 80s part of your post. Would be nice if people could ****ing read properly for once.

 

[Slifer]

Of course. This was literally a golden generation for NZ, and Broad/Anderson backed up by an array of seamers have been pretty good at home as well.

I think this is still nostalgia blinding you and you not bothering to even try to make an actual argument with evidence, but I suppose we have to humor people now and then.

I didn't mention it because I focused on the 80s part of your post. Would be nice if people could ****ing read properly for once.

And it would be nice if you could stop being a damn prick. For the most part everyone here has been respectful except for you chiming in with your profanity laden comments.

 

[Xix2565]

And it would be nice if you could stop being a damn prick. For the most part everyone here has been respectful except for you chiming in with your profanity laden comments.

I don't know, some of the arguments being proposed here were hardly respectful. And it's a bit difficult when it seems like people don't like to engage with the counter arguments proposed in a reasonable manner.

 

[Slifer]

uh what

okay let me list out the bowlers in that 2016-19 period

Aus: Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon
Eng: Broad, Anderson
Ind: Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Ashwin, Jadeja, Umesh
NZ: Wagner, Boult, Southee
Pak: Abbas
SA: Philander, Morkel, Steyn, Rabada
SL: Herath
WI: Gabriel, Holder, Roach
Ban: Shakib

im still omitting players like Bhuvi, Olivier, O’Keefe, Kuldeep and Pattinson who didnt play as much due to being backup or injuries

You may notice I didn't say you were wrong, I simply said that the current attacks (imo) aren't "much" better. And you also literally said attacks today so I took that to mean the current attacks. Therefore, I ignored players like Herath, Steyn, Philander etc. who are retired.

 

[Slifer]

I don't know, some of the arguments being proposed here were hardly respectful. And it's a bit difficult when it seems like people don't like to engage with the counter arguments proposed in a reasonable manner.

Lol lol. You think I haven't engaged with Subz before. I've been on here longer than you've been alive but for the most part I don't go around insulting people.

I said WI would lose 2-1 in India

I said I don't think attacks now are much better than the 80s. Notice I never said current attacks aren't better. I take exception with certain semantics (i assume you understand what that means).

I'd like you to point on an argument I made that was disrespectful. Go on....

 

[Xix2565]

Lol lol. You think I haven't engaged with Subz before. I've been on here longer than you've been alive but for the most part I don't go around insulting people.

And I'd like you to show me one argument I proposed here that was disrespectful. Go on...

The comparison about bowling attacks isn't disrespectful? I mean you'd only say that if you didn't respect the game and follow it enough...

 

[subshakerz]

Why do people keep saying Warne would be a decisive factor in India? Michael Clarke was a better bowler than Warne in India

Better pitches and worse players of spin.

 

[R!TTER]

Better pitches and worse players of spin.

Better pitches for spin?

 

[Slifer]

The comparison about bowling attacks isn't disrespectful? I mean you'd only say that if you didn't respect the game and follow it enough...

I honestly don't see how that's disrespectful. Bowling attacks right now are generally probably better than the 80s. But there isn't some huge gulf or anything like that. The only gulf is due to the sheer number of teams now vs then. And I've seen all these teams and attacks so I actually know what I'm talking about.

And the 90s, that was the best period of bowling. Is that also disrespectful??

 

[subshakerz]

with every post of his its gone from “hmm India will win 2-1 but it will be close” to “India will be lucky to even win or draw”

Never said that.

Said it was close and Aus/WI have the edge but India could win, sure.

 

[Xix2565]

I honestly don't see how that's disrespectful. Bowling attacks right now are generally better than the 80s. But there isn't some huge gulf or anything like that. The only gulf is due to the sheer number of teams now vs then. And I've seen all these teams and attacks so I actually know what I'm talking about.

If you say so, though I doubt it personally. You are the one who think Kapil Dev is equal to India's current pace (or is it entire bowling?) attack for some reason. Incredibly disrespectful to the game in general.

 

[capt_Luffy]

If you say so, though I doubt it personally. You are the one who think Kapil Dev is equal to India's current pace (or is it entire bowling?) attack for some reason. Incredibly disrespectful to the game in general.

He said that the 80s attacks are more or less close to the modern ones..... And honestly, there isn't really much to disagree on that. As for Kapil Dev, you surely don't think Ishant Sharma or Mohammad Siraj is better than him.... RIGHTTTTTT!???

 

[Xix2565]

He said that the 80s attacks are more or less close to the modern ones..... And honestly, there isn't really much to disagree on that. As for Kapil Dev, you surely don't think Ishant Sharma or Mohammad Siraj is better than him.... RIGHTTTTTT!???

He just mentioned Kapil when discussing bowling attacks, am I supposed to take it as Kapil > Bumrah/Shami/Ishant/Umesh/Siraj/etc or what? Same for Hadlee/Chatfield and others. Like sorry, mentioning big names you remember is not a strong argument for their general bowling strength. As can be seen in the home records for the various Indian sides that I post here a few pages back. It's one thing to say X bowler is better than Y, but another entirely to debate bowling attacks when we literally have proof in the form of match records and statistics that say otherwise about the groups of people being debated.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He just mentioned Kapil when discussing bowling attacks, am I supposed to take it as Kapil > Bumrah/Shami/Ishant/Umesh/Siraj/etc or what? Same for Hadlee/Chatfield and others. Like sorry, mentioning big names you remember is not a strong argument for their general bowling strength. As can be seen in the home records for the various Indian sides that I post here a few pages back. It's one thing to say X bowler is better than Y, but another entirely to debate bowling attacks when we literally have proof in the form of match records and statistics that say otherwise about the groups of people being debated.

I mentioned nothing, up till now you were arguing with Silfer.... I was just confirming you don't think Kapil is better than any Indian current or 2016-19 pacer bar Bumrah.