Leach, Ahmed, Hartley - terrible England spin "attacks" in the SC

[wpdavid]

Was at that game. I think you may have recalled the Pakistan series a few months before where he was repeatedly dispatched downtown.

No, I try to forget that series. And I'd completely forgotten that Udal took part in all three tests, returning figures of 1 for 90+ in each of them.

Anyway, good luck to him. There won't be many English spinners with a better series average in India than Udal's 13.4 in 2006, even if he did only account for 5 wickets to achieve that.

 

[Aidan11]

hartley 20 wickets in 4 tests
bashir 12 wickets in 2 tests

And neither of them might play in the home tests.

 

[nightprowler10]

No, I try to forget that series. And I'd completely forgotten that Udal took part in all three tests, returning figures of 1 for 90+ in each of them.

Anyway, good luck to him. There won't be many English spinners with a better series average in India than Udal's 13.4 in 2006, even if he did only account for 5 wickets to achieve that.

I recall Udal being better than Giles though, who seemed to be a mainstay in the team until that point.

 

[Chin Music]

And neither of them might play in the home tests.

If both have decent last tests, I wouldn't have thought that they would be out of the equation to start a home test although they may well stick with Leach if he's fit.

 

[wpdavid]

I recall Udal being better than Giles though, who seemed to be a mainstay in the team until that point.

Not convinced, although I know that Giles did take a lot of flack. He had a pretty good tour of Pakistan in 2000, even if he wasn't so good in the 2005 tour. I think he may have been carrying an in jury then, as he didn't play much thereafter.

 

[danzydab]

And neither of them might play in the home tests.

since england love bowlers who can bat and woakes is the only no8 who is a good with the bat.
hartley has a chance of being part of the xi in all conditions after woakes retires.

 

[Ali TT]

Not convinced, although I know that Giles did take a lot of flack. He had a pretty good tour of Pakistan in 2000, even if he wasn't so good in the 2005 tour. I think he may have been carrying an in jury then, as he didn't play much thereafter.

Giles suffered because he was the incumbent and everyone got to see his shortcomings at test level. Others got hyped up as a result but my suspicion is that all would have been inferior had they had a consistent run. Certainly Giles had a far superior FC record (avg c25) to the likes of Udal, Batty, Croft, Keedy, Brown, Dawson, early career Swann (who all mostly averaged over 30).

 

[Aidan11]

If both have decent last tests, I wouldn't have thought that they would be out of the equation to start a home test although they may well stick with Leach if he's fit.

And if Leach isn't fit the likely selection will be Rehan Ahmed, although I've been more impressed with Hartley and Bashir to be honest.

 

[FBU]

And if Leach isn't fit the likely selection will be Rehan Ahmed, although I've been more impressed with Hartley and Bashir to be honest.

Hartley had 5 catches dropped off his bowling, Bashir two and Ahmed one.

 

[Prince EWS]

Giles suffered because he was the incumbent and everyone got to see his shortcomings at test level. Others got hyped up as a result but my suspicion is that all would have been inferior had they had a consistent run. Certainly Giles had a far superior FC record (avg c25) to the likes of Udal, Batty, Croft, Keedy, Brown, Dawson, early career Swann (who all mostly averaged over 30).

Giles bowled a lot differently in county cricket from memory, too. In Tests they just got him to bowl dry outside leg. Could have definitely had a different looking record with better captaincy or a different role.

 

[Molehill]

Giles bowled a lot differently in county cricket from memory, too. In Tests they just got him to bowl dry outside leg. Could have definitely had a different looking record with better captaincy or a different role.

I think part of that role was caused by having a very decent seam attack around him. He was just expected to keep an end tight and let the quick boys rotate at the other end. For a couple of years it worked very well.

And if Leach isn't fit the likely selection will be Rehan Ahmed, although I've been more impressed with Hartley and Bashir to be honest.

If there's one thing we've learnt from this Tour it's that Rehan is not the current successor to Leach. The battle between Hartley and Bashir will be interesting. Hartley has the help that he can bat, but how much cricket is he going to get for Lancs with Lyon turning up? Considering Bashir is only 20, I hope he's the one who really kicks on at the start of the CC.

 

[Yeoman]

Pulling these last two posts together, Hartley could well be in line for the Giles role of ‘keep it tight with the ball and bat at no 8’.

 

[Molehill]

Pulling these last two posts together, Hartley could well be in line for the Giles role of ‘keep it tight with the ball and bat at no 8’.

Although, if Woakes plays, we don't need a spinner who can bat as much.

We should go for the best wicket taking spinner, being a bit rubbish with the bat never stopped Lyon.

 

[FBU]

India vs England: 'Rise of Hartley and Bashir raises questions about their future development'

England have unearthed two effective spin options in Tom Hartley and Shoaib Bashir, but how do they keep on developing the duo after the tour of India?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bijed]

Giles bowled a lot differently in county cricket from memory, too. In Tests they just got him to bowl dry outside leg. Could have definitely had a different looking record with better captaincy or a different role.

Did he used to get more helpful pitches in county cricket too? His role in Tests certainly wasn't conducive to taking stacks of wickets, but given quite reasonably had a reputation for not actually turning the ball much I'm always surprised at how good his county record is.

That said, I think his county batting record is pretty respectable too, so the pitches presumably weren't too lethal

 

[howitzer]

Did he used to get more helpful pitches in county cricket too? His role in Tests certainly wasn't conducive to taking stacks of wickets, but given quite reasonably had a reputation for not actually turning the ball much I'm always surprised at how good his county record is.

That said, I think his county batting record is pretty respectable too, so the pitches presumably weren't too lethal

I don't think the Edgbaston pitches of the time particularly offered him a huge amount of assistance.

 

[Ali TT]

Did he used to get more helpful pitches in county cricket too? His role in Tests certainly wasn't conducive to taking stacks of wickets, but given quite reasonably had a reputation for not actually turning the ball much I'm always surprised at how good his county record is.

That said, I think his county batting record is pretty respectable too, so the pitches presumably weren't too lethal

His home ground was Egblaston, which has usually been a pretty well balanced ground.

County cricket rarely produces spin friendly pitches, the recent exceptions being Wantage Road in the early 00s, which produced Swann and Panesar, and Taunton in the past decade, which has given us Leach, Bess and now Bashir (although he has barely played FC cricket).

 

[kevinw]

And if Leach isn't fit the likely selection will be Rehan Ahmed, although I've been more impressed with Hartley and Bashir to be honest.

Rehan is definitely third choice of those three I reckon.

 

[howitzer]

His home ground was Egblaston, which has usually been a pretty well balanced ground.

County cricket rarely produces spin friendly pitches, the recent exceptions being Wantage Road in the early 00s, which produced Swann and Panesar, and Taunton in the past decade, which has given us Leach, Bess and now Bashir (although he has barely played FC cricket).

Also brought us International Cricket Captain legends Michael Davies and Jason Brown.

 

[howitzer]

I loved playing Northants on those early editions. I'm pretty sure they also had the highest budget for salaries and training/youth sliders too for reasons unbeknownst to me.