Leach, Ahmed, Hartley - terrible England spin "attacks" in the SC

[Yeoman]

Other than probably Schofield I think that successive selectors’ attitude to spinners was less a search for an a English Warne and more of ‘a spinner - I suppose we ought to have one of them. Can he bat?’

 

[Chubb]

One of the sad things about 90s-00s England legspinners is that if you could combine Salisbury’s attitude with Schofield’s talent, you’d have had a very good player, probably Rashid level. But instead you had a really hard working professional guy who didn’t have the talent, and a lazy wunderkind who acted like a prat and was wildly unpopular with his teammates.

 

[Molehill]

Interesting stat - Bashir's 5fer was just the 4th time an Englishman has taken their maiden 5fer in a Test. But 3 of those have happened in the last 3 years (Root and Jacks the others).

 

[danzydab]

hartley 20 wickets in 4 tests
bashir 12 wickets in 2 tests

 

[Ali TT]

Interesting stat - Bashir's 5fer was just the 4th time an Englishman has taken their maiden 5fer in a Test. But 3 of those have happened in the last 3 years (Root and Jacks the others).

I feel like there's something missing in this stat but maybe I'm reading it wrong?

 

[wpdavid]

I feel like there's something missing in this stat but maybe I'm reading it wrong?

Root, Jacks and Bashir in the last three years.

Some other bloke longer ago.

 

[Starfighter]

I feel like there's something missing in this stat but maybe I'm reading it wrong?

I think he means maiden first class cricket five-for. But doesn't state that.

 

[wpdavid]

hartley 20 wickets in 4 tests
bashir 12 wickets in 2 tests

Only two England spinners have taken more wickets in an series in India than Hartley, who's currently joint third with Swann's haul in 2012.

EDIT
tbh I'm only going back to the start of the 1960s. Maybe there were others in the 1950s or 1940s.

 

[Ali TT]

hartley 20 wickets in 4 tests
bashir 12 wickets in 2 tests

Both average 33, Rehan 44.

In comparison Kuldeep averages 23, Jadeja 26, Ashwin 30.

 

[wpdavid]

Both average 33, Rehan 44.

In comparison Kuldeep averages 23, Jadeja 26, Ashwin 30.

tbf the Indians are far more experienced and, on the whole, are bowling at guys who aren't as good at facing spin.

I wonder how Hartley and Bashir's averages compare to most of the blokes we've sent to India in the last 50 years or so.

 

[Chin Music]

Both average 33, Rehan 44.

In comparison Kuldeep averages 23, Jadeja 26, Ashwin 30.

The pitches this series have generally not been as spin friendly as the decks for the 21 series. I would say that Hartley has done ok overall but he's not exactly made a case for permanent selection just yet.

Oh and what WPDavid said above.

 

[Molehill]

I think he means maiden first class cricket five-for. But doesn't state that.

Sorry yeah, thought it was obvious but maybe not.

 

[Molehill]

tbf the Indians are far more experienced and, on the whole, are bowling at guys who aren't as good at facing spin.

I wonder how Hartley and Bashir's averages compare to most of the blokes we've sent to India in the last 50 years or so.

When England won in 2012, Swann took 20 wickets at 24.75 in 4 Tests and Panesar 17 at 26.8 in 3. Should also be noted that Anderson took 12 at 30 in that series too to help chip in.

 

[wpdavid]

When England won in 2012, Swann took 20 wickets at 24.75 in 4 Tests and Panesar 17 at 26.8 in 3. Should also be noted that Anderson took 12 at 30 in that series too to help chip in.

Yeah, I realise that Swann and Panesar's performance in 2012 was a class apart. But, without checking, I suspect that Hartley and Bashir have performed rather better than most of our spinners in India in recentish times. Maybe better than all the guys apart from Leach in 2021, almost certainly better than the previous lot (2018?), ditto the 1993 cohort, and on a par with or maybe even better than Edmonds and Pocock in 1984/85. And I'd guess they're similar to the guys who went there in the 2000s.

 

[danzydab]

India's bowling was much weaker in the 2012 series.
Jadeja and ashwin just made their debuts too.

 

[Molehill]

Yeah, I realise that Swann and Panesar's performance in 2012 was a class apart. But, without checking, I suspect that Hartley and Bashir have performed rather better than most of our spinners in India in recentish times. Maybe better than all the guys apart from Leach in 2021, almost certainly better than the previous lot (2018?), ditto the 1993 cohort, and on a par with or maybe even better than Edmonds and Pocock in 1984/85. And I'd guess they're similar to the guys who went there in the 2000s.

There was the somewhat bizarre series in 2006 when Anderson and Udal bowled England to victory in the 3rd and Final Test to snatch a 1-1 draw.

Today's Cricket Match | Cricket Update | Cricket News | ESPNcricinfo

Get live cricket scores, cricket updates of upcoming International, domestic and T20 matches. Catch all the latest videos, news about cricket on ESPNcricinfo.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Molehill]

India's bowling was much weaker in the 2012 series.
Jadeja and ashwin just made their debuts too.

Kind of the reverse to this series - England had 2 experienced spinners against some newbies.

 

[wpdavid]

There was the somewhat bizarre series in 2006 when Anderson and Udal bowled England to victory in the 3rd and Final Test to snatch a 1-1 draw.

Today's Cricket Match | Cricket Update | Cricket News | ESPNcricinfo

Get live cricket scores, cricket updates of upcoming International, domestic and T20 matches. Catch all the latest videos, news about cricket on ESPNcricinfo.

www.espncricinfo.com

Yes, the one test that Udal played gave him the rather impressive series figures of 5 for 67.
tbh I'd assumed that he struggled in the previous tests, but he didn't actually play in the first two.

 

[howitzer]

Yes, the one test that Udal played gave him the rather impressive series figures of 5 for 67.
tbh I'd assumed that he struggled in the previous tests, but he didn't actually play in the first two.

Clearly unlucky not to have played more Tests.

 

[Chin Music]

Yes, the one test that Udal played gave him the rather impressive series figures of 5 for 67.
tbh I'd assumed that he struggled in the previous tests, but he didn't actually play in the first two.

Was at that game. I think you may have recalled the Pakistan series a few months before where he was repeatedly dispatched downtown.