Richards, Smith, Lara, Hammond

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Gavaskar, Viswanath, Amarnath also scored decent runs against better bowlers, and Lloyd and Kalicharan weren't shabby at all. No one from Australia averaged 30+ from Australia except Smith. Imo, the pitches just aren't comparable

They all scored about 170 less runs atleast than Viv, and WI didn’t have many good spinners. The next best WI bat scored nearly half of Viv. I agree Smith faced worse pitches, that’s why his series is better. But not by a hundred miles

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

It’s close, so we can agree to disagree here

 

[subshakerz]

By 1987, Imran was at his last leg as a bowler and way past his prime, same for Qadir and Wasim wasn't that good yet. I never said Viv played particularly worse bowling, just that Smith also haven't necessarily done so.

No. His prime lasted until 1988. In fact, his series against WI was his last great one. He took 23 wickets in 3 tests.

 

[capt_Luffy]

It’s close, so we can agree to disagree here

I think that's better. I was not arguing Smith was miles ahead of Viv, or Smith faced attack Viv couldn't dream of facing; but that saying Smith didn't faced anything challenging close to Viv is just plain wrong.

 

[capt_Luffy]

No. His prime lasted until 1988. In fact, his series against WI was his last great one. He took 23 wickets in 3 tests.

Yeah, I corrected myself on that.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I think that's better. I was not arguing Smith was miles ahead of Viv, or Smith faced attack Viv couldn't dream of facing; but that saying Smith didn't faced anything challenging close to Viv is just plain wrong.

Agreed.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Agreed.

That's all I was saying then. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[subshakerz]

I think that's better. I was not arguing Smith was miles ahead of Viv, or Smith faced attack Viv couldn't dream of facing; but that saying Smith didn't faced anything challenging close to Viv is just plain wrong.

Not to the extent that Viv did if we talk about ATG level.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You must be joking. First, did Archer play with Anderson? Second, Lillee and Thomo on mid 70s Aus pitches? Imran, Qadir and Qasim at home?

Lillee and Thommo in 76, Viv wasn't really that successful; Smith faced similar quality attack with Rabada, Steyn and Philander in 2018. In the series he was successful, I would say English attack in England comes close to that, though not better. Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami and Umesh in India is better than Imran and co in Pakistan.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not to the extent that Viv did if we talk about ATG level.

Go away Subs! And I thought we just came to an agreement.....

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Lillee and Thommo in 76, Viv wasn't really that successful; Smith faced similar quality attack with Rabada, Steyn and Philander in 2018. In the series he was successful, I would say English attack in England comes close to that, though not better. Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami and Umesh in India is better than Imran and co in Pakistan.

Shami didn’t play in the 17 series. Plus Lillee, Thomson and Hogg(who was embarrassing Geoffery Boycott) in the 70s Aus pitches is atleast on the same level as the 17 series

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Also Imran(especially in his peak)Qadir and Qasim(brilliant record at home) is atleast as good as Broad and Anderson(who sucks in home Ashes anyways) in Eng

 

[subshakerz]

Lillee and Thommo in 76, Viv wasn't really that successful; Smith faced similar quality attack with Rabada, Steyn and Philander in 2018. In the series he was successful, I would say English attack in England comes close to that, though not better. Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami and Umesh in India is better than Imran and co in Pakistan.

He failed against SA in 2018. You mean 2013.

Englands 2010 attack is not to that level sorry. I would take Willis, peak Botham and Hendrick over that.

 

[subshakerz]

Go away Subs! And I thought we just came to an agreement.....

Hou agreed that Smith did face it, we just disagree on the extent.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Shami didn’t play in the 17 series. Plus Lillee, Thomson and Hogg(who was embarrassing Geoffery Boycott) in the 70s Aus pitches is atleast on the same level as the 17 series

And that's exactly what I said. All the cases, more or less comparable. On comparable levels, not totally something out of Smith's imagination....

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

He failed against SA in 2018. You mean 2013.

Englands 2010 attack is not to that level sorry. I would take Willis, peak Botham and Hendrick over that.

He was talking about 2015 series, where Anderson and Broad were bowling togther

 

[capt_Luffy]

He failed against SA in 2018. You mean 2013.

Englands 2010 attack is not to that level sorry. I would take Willis, peak Botham and Hendrick over that.

I would definitely not..... But that's Ok

Hou agreed that Smith did face it, we just disagree on the extent.

Yeah, I think so. I think Smith probably faced more challenging batting conditions (line-up+pitch); you think that's a laughable thought and Viv's level of attacks are leagues above Smith's most..... Let's agree to disagree then!

 

[capt_Luffy]

He was talking about 2015 series, where Anderson and Broad were bowling togther

And 2019 also. Even in the absence of Anderson, Broad and Archer were at peak and looking Very dangerous. Though definitely on paper Botham, Willis and Hendricks is a much better attack.

 

[subshakerz]

I would definitely not..... But that's Ok

Yeah, I think so. I think Smith probably faced more challenging batting conditions (line-up+pitch); you think that's a laughable thought and Viv's level of attacks are leagues above Smith's most..... Let's agree to disagree then!

Given his home career, yeah we definitely are going to have to disagree here.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

And 2019 also. Even in the absence of Anderson, Broad and Archer were at peak and looking Very dangerous. Though definitely on paper Botham, Willis and Hendricks is a much better attack.

And Woakes in England is ATG too