Best England side of this century

[Adders]

It's not like 2010-12 didn't have their own purple patches with the likes of Tremlett and Bresnan having a limited time gun period. In fact, in terms of the latter that was about five tests long, admittedly two in Australia and then three home tests v India. He was pretty shocking after he came back from injury, certainly in the South Africa home and India away series.

I wondered about this because I recall Bres having unreal stat's at one point. So having a look he only played 23 tests after 10 he ave 45 with the bat and 21 with the ball.....that was after home India series.

 

[Daemon]

That no.1 status doesn't mean anything since they promptly lost four test in a row in the SC

big asterisk next to 3 of those though

 

[Kirkut]

Yeah, Broad had some truly magical bowling spells back then, but a good number of times he was very average. That's partly the teams fault for trying to make him an "enforcer" and also his for often bowling too short.

Bresnan was average and just in the right place at the right time. Tremlett was excellent for a few games, but didn't play enough to count.

That team won a lot thanks to scorecard pressure not bowling excellence.

"Bowling excellence" is exaggerated.

So if Bresnan was at the right place at the right time, why doesn't this apply to Flintoff, Harmisson and Jones? They were hardly world beaters besides that good patch in 2004-06 period. Broad and Anderson have maintained that high class throughout their careers on the other hand.

 

[Kirkut]

I would like to know what Anderson and Broad were averaging at the 2010-2012 cut off though. I reckon somewhere near the 30 mark each and their bowling averages have both dipped remarkably in the decade since.

I didn't rate that attack much before we toured UK in 2011, especially after the way our batters handled peak Steyn in the same year.

What followed was among the finest displays of seam bowling I have witnessed in a cricket game. No bouncer barrage but top notch lateral movement.

 

[reyrey]

"Bowling excellence" is exaggerated.

So if Bresnan was at the right place at the right time, why doesn't this apply to Flintoff, Harmisson and Jones? They were hardly world beaters besides that good patch in 2004-06 period. Broad and Anderson have maintained that high class throughout their careers on the other hand.

The whole thread is about their respective "good patch" between 2004-06 and 2010-12 not about who maintained a high level the longest.

 

[shortpitched713]

Well the Strauss side is the only one of the 3 to actually to be ranked No 1 in the world so they already did it.

It was admittedly a brief stay at the top but they started from a very low base line......51ao in the Windies and ranked 7th if iirc. Again if I remember correctly I think it was a matter of 18 months from that low ebb to holding the mace!!

Too brief. Need at least a couple of years for it to be valid. At least like SA, where they had about 4 years, I can definitely say it's the high watermark of modern SA Test cricket.

There's no reason for England fans to wax nostalgic about a bright, but short lived, mercurial past team, when what they have right now, looks very much the real deal, and improving ( unlike the other top contenders ).

 

[Chin Music]

"Bowling excellence" is exaggerated.

So if Bresnan was at the right place at the right time, why doesn't this apply to Flintoff, Harmisson and Jones? They were hardly world beaters besides that good patch in 2004-06 period. Broad and Anderson have maintained that high class throughout their careers on the other hand.

Bresnan was so bad towards the end of his test career, he tended to still get selected because he in theory offered greater batting depth and if you recall, the likes of Finn/Tremlett/Rankin who were selected for that tour were pretty much unselectable so he got 2 tests bowling lob downs in 2013/14. Sure, Harmison had some pretty terrible moments, particularly towards the end of 2006 but I would rather him charging in than Bresnan all things considered.

 

[kevinw]

Harmison came back for one last test in 2019, right? Nice victory lap for him, picking up some easy tail-end wickets with his mate, Freddie.

 

[GIMH]

Harmison's only asset was raw pace and bounce, which is fleeting, and the likes of Hoggard fell off a cliff soon after. Jones' record betrays him peaking at the right time too. It was a purple patch.

The 2009 to present attack group (Anderson and until now Broad have been the foundation of it) always had more going for them long term than 2005. Even someone like Mark Wood, the most similar in method to Harmison except skiddy, has kept it going for more calendar years than the 2005 group. If anything he has gotten better with age.

Hoggard never really fell off a cliff; well he never got the chance to. Nobody was citing his demise when he got axed and the clamour for his recall lasted up to the 2009 Ashes when Broad did his first wonder spell to basically win us the series.

Jones didn’t ’peak at the right time’ his career was curtailed. Who knows if he’d have sustained it?

But the real issue with your post is your failure to mention the best bowler in the 05 attack…

 

[howitzer]

Hoggard never really fell off a cliff; well he never got the chance to. Nobody was citing his demise when he got axed and the clamour for his recall lasted up to the 2009 Ashes when Broad did his first wonder spell to basically win us the series.

Jones didn’t ’peak at the right time’ his career was curtailed. Who knows if he’d have sustained it?

But the real issue with your post is your failure to mention the best bowler in the 05 attack…

Yeah Ashley Giles was outstanding.

 

[Flem274*]

Hoggard never really fell off a cliff; well he never got the chance to. Nobody was citing his demise when he got axed and the clamour for his recall lasted up to the 2009 Ashes when Broad did his first wonder spell to basically win us the series.

Jones didn’t ’peak at the right time’ his career was curtailed. Who knows if he’d have sustained it?

But the real issue with your post is your failure to mention the best bowler in the 05 attack…

Almost mentioned Flintoff as the exception.

For sure Jones had some great games, but he does average 30 or whatever. It's a bit mid, and shows he was still working into tests.

People slaughtered Hoggard during that Hamilton test that got him dropped. It was a bit harsh - NZ were using guys who bowled into the wicket more and while England had Harmison, the pitch wasn't rapid. I think Hoggard would have done ok at the Basin but we'll never know. Anderson announced himself that game, though he was still old school Anderson at the time.

 

[reyrey]

Almost mentioned Flintoff as the exception.

For sure Jones had some great games, but he does average 30 or whatever. It's a bit mid, and shows he was still working into tests.

People slaughtered Hoggard during that Hamilton test that got him dropped. It was a bit harsh - NZ were using guys who bowled into the wicket more and while England had Harmison, the pitch wasn't rapid. I think Hoggard would have done ok at the Basin but we'll never know. Anderson announced himself that game, though he was still old school Anderson at the time.

You are probably confusing Simon Jones for someone else. Maybe Onions.

Jones averaged 28.23 Under Vaughan it was 27.12 and against an ATG Aus batting line up he averaged 21.57

 

[Fuller Pilch]

You are probably confusing Simon Jones for someone else. Maybe Onions.

Jones averaged 28.23 Under Vaughan it was 27.12 and against an ATG Aus batting line up he averaged 21.57

28.23 is about 30 though.

 

[reyrey]

28.23 is about 30 though.

Guess you failed Maths at school. 28.23 would be about 28 if rounding.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Guess you failed Maths at school. 28.23 would be about 28 if rounding

The point is that it is an adequate, but not outstanding, record.

 

[reyrey]

The point is that it is an adequate, but not outstanding record.

And my point was he was better than just "mid" during the period this thread is about and outstanding against the best batting line up he faced.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Jones would have averaged over 30 without the Murray Mints

 

[reyrey]

Jones would have averaged over 30 without the Murray Mints

He did fine against South Africa in 4 Tests where it wasn't reversing. Averaged 26.66

 

[Flem274*]

I thought Jones had a career average of like 32. Might be mixing it up with his career stats on the Ricky Ponting 2005 game.

 

[reyrey]

I thought Jones had a career average of like 32. Might be mixing it up with his career stats on the Ricky Ponting 2005 game.

That might be it. He had a poor bowling average at the midpoint of his short career as he was one of the unfortunate bowlers playing in the Lara 400 not out Test.