Best England side of this century

[Molehill]

My feeling is that Anderson/Broad were better bowlers later into their careers rather than earlier but please prove me wrong (I suspect both peaked somewhere in the middle of those eras). Prior at eight is a nice luxury if Stokes/Flintoff both bowl.

Anderson averaged just under 26 in that period (better than overall career which got so dented early on). But to put that in perspective, since turning 35, he's taken 215 wickets at 22.2

Broad was not at his best in this period, averaged 29 compared to career of 27. Definitely an argument to be looking elsewhere for a fast bowler - Jones could be the option.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Strauss team, not even close either. Best batting line up we have had in decades, very good keeper bat, best spinner since Underwood and our GOAT new ball pair.

Having said all that I'd have loved to see Flintoff and KP play under Bazball.

 

[Molehill]

Having said all that I'd have loved to see Flintoff and KP play under Bazball.

Day 1 Edgbaston 2005 was a pretty good impression of it - especially the Flintoff/KP partnership.

ENG vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Birmingham, August 04 - 07, 2005

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, ENG vs AUS, Australia tour of England and Scotland 2005 at Edgbaston, Birmingham dated August 04 - 07, 2005.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Chin Music]

I do actually think that at it's very height the 2004-2006 team was the best. It's fast bowling set it above any of the other two incarnations for me. Perhaps it was a little behind as a batting unit compared with the 2010-12 unit but I do think it's bowling especially with Simon Jones as the reverse swing merchant set it above. I get the arguments that 2010-2012 was better because of spin/better batting depth but I rather think I liked the 2004-6 team's batting when on song. They were more destructive.

 

[shortpitched713]

Which of these teams has a chance to be considered the very best Test team in the world?

I think the current one is the only one with a shot at that.

 

[Adders]

Which of these teams has a chance to be considered the very best Test team in the world?

I think the current one is the only one with a shot at that.

Well the Strauss side is the only one of the 3 to actually to be ranked No 1 in the world so they already did it.

It was admittedly a brief stay at the top but they started from a very low base line......51ao in the Windies and ranked 7th if iirc. Again if I remember correctly I think it was a matter of 18 months from that low ebb to holding the mace!!

 

[Sunil1z]

If England win the Test series in India, they would be ranked no.1

 

[Adders]

If England win the Test series in India, they would be ranked no.1

I actually think if Eng did pull that off it would be more impressive than the 2012 No 1 ranking......both India and Aus are much stronger sides than they were then. We'd still need at least a credible performance in Aus though for it to feel justified.

 

[subshakerz]

I do actually think that at it's very height the 2004-2006 team was the best. It's fast bowling set it above any of the other two incarnations for me. Perhaps it was a little behind as a batting unit compared with the 2010-12 unit but I do think it's bowling especially with Simon Jones as the reverse swing merchant set it above. I get the arguments that 2010-2012 was better because of spin/better batting depth but I rather think I liked the 2004-6 team's batting when on song. They were more destructive.

When in doubt, go for the better bowling attack, which normally means the better pace attack. A lesson posters here forget.

 

[subshakerz]

Well the Strauss side is the only one of the 3 to actually to be ranked No 1 in the world so they already did it.

It was admittedly a brief stay at the top but they started from a very low base line......51ao in the Windies and ranked 7th if iirc. Again if I remember correctly I think it was a matter of 18 months from that low ebb to holding the mace!!

That no.1 status doesn't mean anything since they promptly lost four test in a row in the SC and then we're soundly beaten at home by SA.

It's not Vaughn's team fault they were around when a ATG Aus side was playing otherwise they would be no.1.

 

[Adders]

Ok......ranked 7th to No 1 inside 18 mths means nothing?

It was a great 18 months fella......yes the wheels fell off quickly I don't deny that but you know when your best batsmen goes rogue texting the opposition how to get his captain out I think you know there's more than cricket reasons for things going to **** during that period.

Or is this like the Ajmal thing where it's not acceptable to throw in a bit of a sub text?

 

[Chin Music]

Ok......ranked 7th to No 1 inside 18 mths means nothing?

It was a great 18 months fella......yes the wheels fell off quickly I don't deny that but you know when your best batsmen goes rogue texting the opposition how to get his captain out I think you know there's more than cricket reasons for things going to **** during that period.

Or is this like the Ajmal thing where it's not acceptable to throw in a bit of a sub text?

I am very sure that certain batsman wasn't very nice about his captain, but I'm far less sure that he gave instructions on how to get the captain out as Morne Morkel coming around the wicket to him had been doing just fine at getting him out for like 2 and a half series in a row.

 

[Flem274*]

Harmison's only asset was raw pace and bounce, which is fleeting, and the likes of Hoggard fell off a cliff soon after. Jones' record betrays him peaking at the right time too. It was a purple patch.

The 2009 to present attack group (Anderson and until now Broad have been the foundation of it) always had more going for them long term than 2005. Even someone like Mark Wood, the most similar in method to Harmison except skiddy, has kept it going for more calendar years than the 2005 group. If anything he has gotten better with age.

 

[Adders]

I am very sure that certain batsman wasn't very nice about his captain, but I'm far less sure that he gave instructions on how to get the captain out as Morne Morkel coming around the wicket to him had been doing just fine at getting him out for like 2 and a half series in a row.

Well no one will ever know for sure unless we see the texts but it's was pretty well documented at the time. But that's not even the point......what can't be denied is KP's presser after he played that remarkable innings where he **** on Strauss big time. It's really not hard to see he was a cancer in that side at the time.

 

[subshakerz]

Ok......ranked 7th to No 1 inside 18 mths means nothing?

It was a great 18 months fella......yes the wheels fell off quickly I don't deny that but you know when your best batsmen goes rogue texting the opposition how to get his captain out I think you know there's more than cricket reasons for things going to **** during that period.

Or is this like the Ajmal thing where it's not acceptable to throw in a bit of a sub text?

Well that's the thing, I think such inner issues with mental strength and team dynamics let that team be less than the sum of its parts. Whereas the Vaughn team was very well gelled as a unit, firing on all cylinders at once. So I don't take this teamsheet reading posters are doing here as gospel.

 

[subshakerz]

Harmison's only asset was raw pace and bounce, which is fleeting, and the likes of Hoggard fell off a cliff soon after. Jones' record betrays him peaking at the right time too. It was a purple patch.

The 2009 to present attack group (Anderson and until now Broad have been the foundation of it) always had more going for them long term than 2005. Even someone like Mark Wood, the most similar in method to Harmison except skiddy, has kept it going for more calendar years than the 2005 group. If anything he has gotten better with age.

Yeah but the question is who was stronger in their purple patch I believe.

 

[Adders]

So I don't take this teamsheet reading posters are doing here as gospel.

This is the thing that is really pissing me off about the way you've been posting in this thread subs and why I keep coming back to disagree with you. That is absolute bollocks mate...ive really lost a lot of my love for cricket the last few year and life now means I struggle to watch **** all of it tbh.

But from about 2002 through to 2013 I would have barely missed a session England played.......you are arguing with people that know these sides far better than you will ever know them. And you are just wrong....very wrong....totally wrong. It's like the complete opposite of what you're saying (@Prince EWS and @TheJediBrah )

 

[Molehill]

Yeah but the question is who was stronger in their purple patch I believe.

Well then it's clearly 2010-12 coz winning in Aus and India is a far higher bar set than one achieved by 2005.

 

[Chin Music]

It's not like 2010-12 didn't have their own purple patches with the likes of Tremlett and Bresnan having a limited time gun period. In fact, in terms of the latter that was about five tests long, admittedly two in Australia and then three home tests v India. He was pretty shocking after he came back from injury, certainly in the South Africa home and India away series.

 

[Chin Music]

Well no one will ever know for sure unless we see the texts but it's was pretty well documented at the time. But that's not even the point......what can't be denied is KP's presser after he played that remarkable innings where he **** on Strauss big time. It's really not hard to see he was a cancer in that side at the time.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the general issue on Strauss, not at all. I just find the angle that he must have given SA advice on getting him out rather baffling given they had been very successful at that apart from the 2004/5 series when Strauss made 3 tons. I mean it is not like the English press to make up certain things now, is it?