Ashwin vs Lyon, who is better on flat pitches?

[Daemon]

Something being inherently assumed for some reason here is that there are no flat tracks in India.

Plenty of instances where Indian batsmen have made hay while Ashwin’s taken 5 and even 10fers.

 

[subshakerz]

Something being inherently assumed for some reason here is that there are no flat tracks in India.

Plenty of instances where Indian batsmen have made hay while Ashwin’s taken 5 and even 10fers.

There's a difference between slow turners and flat tracks. The only case I remember Ashwin excelling in the latter was 4th test Aus Ind 2023.

 

[honestbharani]

Something being inherently assumed for some reason here

It is only one person to be fair and the reason has always been obvious.

 

[Daemon]

There's a difference between slow turners and flat tracks. The only case I remember Ashwin excelling in the latter was 4th test Aus Ind 2023.

Maybe, but ligma applies again

 

[Xix2565]

It's just that Ashwin makes Lyon look good.

If you are blind and dumb, sure. In reality however...

 

[Spark]

Something being inherently assumed for some reason here is that there are no flat tracks in India.

Plenty of instances where Indian batsmen have made hay while Ashwin’s taken 5 and even 10fers.

That is true but it can't be denied that virtually nothing is more hostile for offspin than typical Australian conditions.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Lyon averaging "just over 30" in Australia is far more impressive than averaging 25 on recent Indian decks.

Ashwin doesn’t average 25 on Indian decks (he averages lower). And the decks haven’t been spicy for the entirety of his career.
Cf, Jadeja.

 

[Socerer 01]

Something being inherently assumed for some reason here is that there are no flat tracks in India.

Plenty of instances where Indian batsmen have made hay while Ashwin’s taken 5 and even 10fers.

everytime this moronic discussion happens around Ashwin i point this out and every time it gets forgotten by the next round of it

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin doesn’t average 25 on Indian decks (he averages lower). And the decks haven’t been spicy for the entirety of his career.
Cf, Jadeja.

When weren't they spicy? You mean pre 2015?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Didn’t they start consistently making pitches spicy after England won that test in 2021?

 

[_00_deathscar]

Didn’t they start consistently making pitches spicy after England won that test in 2021?

Yes - there’s always the odd spicy deck in a home series of 3-5 tests but to claim that every deck Ashwin and Jadeja have ever played on where Karun Nair made 300+ runs in one of them is ridiculous.

 

[Daemon]

When weren't they spicy? You mean pre 2015?

England tour of 2016/17 was quite high scoring

 

[_00_deathscar]

When weren't they spicy? You mean pre 2015?

The ones where **** batsmen like Karun Nair piled on 300.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yes - there’s always the odd spicy deck in a home series of 3-5 tests but to claim that every deck Ashwin and Jadeja have ever played on where Karun Nair made 300+ runs in one of them is ridiculous.

Kohli was putting up some insane stats at home as well pre 2021

 

[_00_deathscar]

England tour of 2016/17 was quite high scoring

It’s not just two sides too - cos SA (or any other team) collapses to spin doesn’t mean those decks aren’t flat when India are regularly putting on 400 and 500+

 

[Daemon]

Haven't followed properly but why do we care about a downhill skiing 6-fer in the 4th innings when the ball was spitting when discussing performances on a flat wicket? Subzshakers is pretty terrible at this stuff even when he may be on the right side.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Haven't followed properly but why do we care about a downhill skiing 6-fer in the 4th innings when the ball was spitting when discussing performances on a flat wicket? Subzshakers is pretty terrible at this stuff even when he may be on the right side.

That was my main point against him; that how that Birmingham match was better than Ashwin's 6 wickets in Adelaide 2021...

 

[Spark]

Ashwin doesn’t average 25 on Indian decks (he averages lower). And the decks haven’t been spicy for the entirety of his career.
Cf, Jadeja.

I'm not saying he does. Just that dismissing Lyon as averaging over 30 in Australia is insultingly simplistic.

 

[Spark]

Haven't followed properly but why do we care about a downhill skiing 6-fer in the 4th innings when the ball was spitting when discussing performances on a flat wicket? Subzshakers is pretty terrible at this stuff even when he may be on the right side.

It's especially ironic when the main criticism of Lyon over his career was that he was weirdly ineffective in the fourth innings given how effective he could be in the first.

 

[Flem274*]

It's Lyon, and it's almost to his detriment on turners.

It's not just a case of him being good in the environment he was developed in either. He has bowled well in England and is one of very few spinners to be a match winner in modern NZ, and not just free runs.