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How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Silver Silva said:
I don't think Pakistani legends would be afraid of Ashwin and Jadeja either ...
It's just a question of team chemistry being on point which isn't always the case with Pakistan cricket ..

We really missed out on a great battle in the 2010's cause of politics :(

Younus Khan & Misbah on slow turners vs Ashwin & Jadeja would have been great to watch
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Yes. Early Yasir Shah vs Kohli would have been nice as well.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Line and Length said:
It's what you get when you put "unbeatable" in a thread title.
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Yeah, the title has a few problems. First, the current side isn't winning against either of those teams with this batting line-up. And secondly, "unbeatable" is a big word. I interpreted as not losing a series in their prime, afterall 'unbeatable' Aussies and Windies did lost matches (and series as well).
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
I am saying on those pitches, like we saw for Eng 2016/17 series or others, both spin attacks are hampered somewhat, but the better batting lineup will add more scoreboard pressure.

Aus still regularly managed 400 plus scores in India in 2001 and 2004/5. You are underrating their batting.
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Ashwin and Jadeja took a lot of wickets in that series
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
I am saying on those pitches, like we saw for Eng 2016/17 series or others, both spin attacks are hampered somewhat, but the better batting lineup will add more scoreboard pressure.

Aus still regularly managed 400 plus scores in India in 2001 and 2004/5. You are underrating their batting.
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But those pitches were extremely batting friendly. It's the reason we are holding Warne, despite his poor performance, in such high regards.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
HouHsiaoHsien said:
and in such conditions Aus of the 2000s do not have especially strong batting(Hayden, Langer Ponting etc). It is more or less equal to India(Pant, Kohli, Rohit, Pujara)
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Hayden is a good player of spin. As was Clarke, Martyn and Lehmann, or Mark Waugh even if we go earlier. Gilly has several matchwinning knocks in the SC. Even Ponting did well against Murali, he wasn't hopeless against spin contrary to the assumptions. They are better than India's batting side, especially on a flat pitch. This shouldn't be a point of disagreement.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Hayden is a good player of spin. As was Clarke, Martyn and Lehmann, or Mark Waugh even if we go earlier. Gilly has several matchwinning knocks in the SC. Even Ponting did well against Murali. They are better than India's batting side, especially on a flat pitch. This shouldn't be a point of disagreement.
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Kohli dominated peak Shakib and Hearth in the SC. Pujara, Pant and Rohit are as good players of spin as Hayden etc if not more
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
Hayden is a good player of spin. As was Clarke, Martyn and Lehmann, or Mark Waugh even if we go earlier. Gilly has several matchwinning knocks in the SC. Even Ponting did well against Murali, he wasn't hopeless against spin contrary to the assumptions. They are better than India's batting side, especially on a flat pitch. This shouldn't be a point of disagreement.
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They're better on flat pitches, no one is arguing that, Ponting was the best batsman after Don on flat tracks. But these are not flat tracks, and Ponting failing in India wasn't just a fluke or bad luck, he genuinely played for 4 series here and was severely out of depth. He would definitely struggle against Ashwin/Jadeja. Gilly and Langer also averages sub 30 in India. Among Aussie regulars in the 2000s, Hayden, Martyn, Clarke and Waugh bros were good players of spin, but they weren't better than Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Rohit, Pant, etc. All in all, I don't think Aussie batting have any advantage in India by any standards.
Also: What Australia team would you field? I was thinking:
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Gillespie
Warne
McGrath
MacGill/Miller

If you want Clarke and Lehman, then you have to part with the Waugh's. Bear in mind I am trying to assemble the strongest who actually played together.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
They're better on flat pitches, no one is arguing that, Ponting was the best batsman after Don on flat tracks. But these are not flat tracks, and Ponting failing in India wasn't just a fluke or bad luck, he genuinely played for 4 series here and was severely out of depth. He would definitely struggle against Ashwin/Jadeja. Gilly and Langer also averages sub 30 in India. Among Aussie regulars in the 2000s, Hayden, Martyn, Clarke and Waugh bros were good players of spin, but they weren't better than Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Rohit, Pant, etc. All in all, I don't think Aussie batting have any advantage in India by any standards.
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Bro, I was talking about on a slow turning flat track India would prepare, Australia batting would have a serious advantage. You agree.

And on rank turners though, both batting sides will struggle and their respective advantages are neutralised and it essentially becomes a toss-up who will win subject to a cameo from someone like Gilly or Pant to tip one side over. Pretty much similar to the last test of the 2004/5 series.

Hence why I think realistically defensive curators in India wouldn't risk rank turning pitches for most games for fear of potentially it backfiring, it would be serious gamble unlike with weaker teams. They are likely to mostly go slow turners to try and ensure a drawn series. With 1-2 result oriented games.

You get my point?

capt_Luffy said:
Also: What Australia team would you field? I was thinking:
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Gillespie
Warne
McGrath
MacGill/Miller

If you want Clarke and Lehman, then you have to part with the Waugh's. Bear in mind I am trying to assemble the strongest who actually played together.
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Yeah I am fine with that lineup.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
HouHsiaoHsien said:
Kohli dominated peak Shakib and Hearth in the SC. Pujara, Pant and Rohit are as good players of spin as Hayden etc if not more
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Shakib and Herath can't compare to the spinners Hayden faced, Kumble, Murali, Saqlain and even Harbi in his miracle series.

I think the main point is, Australia are not particularly weak against spin. That's a myth. Kohli's team at best is equal to them in this regard though I don't believe so.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Bro, I was talking about on a slow turning flat track India would prepare, Australia batting would have a serious advantage. You agree.

And on rank turners though, both batting sides will struggle and their respective advantages are neutralised and it essentially becomes a toss-up who will win subject to a cameo from someone like Gilly or Pant to tip one side over. Pretty much similar to the last test of the 2004/5 series.

Hence why I think realistically defensive curators in India wouldn't risk rank turning pitches for most games for fear of potentially it backfiring, it would be serious gamble unlike with weaker teams. They are likely to mostly go slow turners to try and ensure a drawn series. With 1-2 result oriented games.

You get my point?


Yeah I am fine with that lineup.
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Flat tracks sure, Aus lineup is more imposing, but on a slow turning flat track vs Ashwin/Jadeja and a range of pace bowlers who’ve done exceedingly well at home, I don’t think so
 
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