How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[HouHsiaoHsien]

McGrath and Gillespie are also great in India.


Yeah and with Kumble injured in 2001 Australia should have steamrolled India but Harbi ended up bowling miraculously well at a level he never performed before or since.

Ponting was also out most of the series in 2004.

But even if we take your point, it is not remotely as comparable as Australia 2008 onwards. If you remove your entire ATG attack, is it really the same team?

That was to Australia’s favour I guess

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Ind and peak Aus’s attacks in Ind are relatively equally good. Mcgrath and Gillespie were brilliant in Ind, but so are Shami and Umesh(and you except Bumrah to be). Hayden, Langer etc are not any better players of spin than Rohit, Pujara, Pant and peak Kohli, and I’d say Ashwin/Jadeja would pose a bigger threat than Macgill and Warne. However the series would be close, but Ind are slightly, marginally more poised to win

 

[capt_Luffy]

Again, look at the sides that India have played in the last decade and realise they haven't really been tested at nearly this level.

Top WI destroyed WI 3-0 in India in 83.

But in 74 they also trounced India with their spin quartet and didn't have their full pacers then.

The idea that pacers with success in India like Roberts and Marshall will be nonfactors is silly.

Even a basic spinner like Roger Harper will be a threat.

I do agree that Australia 2000s present a bigger challenge, thanks to Warne and MacGill.

I think you are severely underestimating the difference between the two conditions. India were no way near the unbeatable force at home during the days of the quartet and had pitches being really comparable, that wouldn't had been the case. Marshall and co are the best bowling line-up ever assembled, but Indian pitches aren't going to be better for them than Ashwin and Jadeja.

Let's be clear. A full strength Aussie side only played India in India in 2001 and 2004/5. In the first they nearly won except for some miracle performances. And they won the second.

And that was a much stronger Indian batting lineup.

Outside that, in 2008 and 2010 they didn't have Gillespie, McGrath and Warne. So that's the situation.

And that's the thing really. After drawing that Australia tour, Indian team kinda fell off a cliff there in Sachin's absence. Not to mention, had India really being unbeatable in the 2000s, we wouldn't been having this discussion. Indian top order was definitely better back then, but I believe as Bolo pointed out, Indian batting averages more in the 2010s than then, probably due to Jadeja and Ashwin. I don't think India even needs so much spicy pitches to be ahead, just turning tracks suiting Ashwin and Jadeja more than Warne. See, at the end of the day, it's really all speculations (mr. Obvious here). I just think had I had to put a bet on a team, I would put one on India.

 

[Prince EWS]

I reckon peak Australia would win because I'm not a big fan of the current Indian batting lineup. Going back a couple of years when Pujara was still good and Pant was in the side might change that, but India's bowling attack hadn't quite come together in the way it has now then. It's close.

I reckon it'd be too easy for India to prepare wickets that made it a spin shoot out against the West Indies though. Can't see them being favourites.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I reckon peak Australia would win because I'm not a big fan of the current Indian batting lineup. Going back a couple of years when Pujara was still good and Pant was in the side might change that, but India's bowling attack hadn't quite come together in the way it has now then. It's close.

I reckon it'd be too easy for India to prepare wickets that made it a spin shoot out against the West Indies though. Can't see them being favourites.

Is current Indian bowling line-up really better than like, 2019; when Bumrah was in his peak, Shami was bowling close to now, Ishant was enjoying his comeback to the fullest, Umesh was still present and dangerous and Ashwin and Jadeja were probably even better? I also don't think present India are the favourites due to the batting line-up, so I am also comparing with the '19 team, when Pujara was still around, Rahane wasn't useless and Kohli was at his peak.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I reckon peak Australia would win because I'm not a big fan of the current Indian batting lineup. Going back a couple of years when Pujara was still good and Pant was in the side might change that, but India's bowling attack hadn't quite come together in the way it has now then. It's close.

That's not true at all. India's pace attack has been amazing at home since about 2016. That 4 year period from 2015-2019 is when India's batting and bowling were both firing at an elite level.

 

[subshakerz]

Ind and peak Aus’s attacks in Ind are relatively equally good. Mcgrath and Gillespie were brilliant in Ind, but so are Shami and Umesh(and you except Bumrah to be). Hayden, Langer etc are not any better players of spin than Rohit, Pujara, Pant and peak Kohli, and I’d say Ashwin/Jadeja would pose a bigger threat than Macgill and Warne. However the series would be close, but Ind are slightly, marginally more poised to win

Hayden was a genuine good player of spin. Langer not so.

I think Warne on spiced wickets would be a nightmare scenario for India. They lost tests to nobody spinners this past decade due to overdoing these wickets, imagine having him in his peak.

But yeah, it won't be a walk in the park for either team.

 

[subshakerz]

That's not true at all. India's pace attack has been amazing at home since about 2016. That 4 year period from 2015-2019 is when India's batting and bowling were both firing at an elite level.

Bumrah wasn't at home then.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Bumrah wasn't at home then.

Bumrah has never really been a big factor in India's success in home tests. It's shami Umesh and ishant.

 

[subshakerz]

I think you are severely underestimating the difference between the two conditions. India were no way near the unbeatable force at home during the days of the quartet and had pitches being really comparable, that wouldn't had been the case. Marshall and co are the best bowling line-up ever assembled, but Indian pitches aren't going to be better for them than Ashwin and Jadeja.

Just emphasizing the point that WI had high level of spin players and bowlers adept in the conditions. They literally crushed reasonably strong Indian team in 74 and 83. 2010s India will be different challenge but we can't pretend WI are out of their element here.

And that's the thing really. After drawing that Australia tour, Indian team kinda fell off a cliff there in Sachin's absence. Not to mention, had India really being unbeatable in the 2000s, we wouldn't been having this discussion. Indian top order was definitely better back then, but I believe as Bolo pointed out, Indian batting averages more in the 2010s than then, probably due to Jadeja and Ashwin. I don't think India even needs so much spicy pitches to be ahead, just turning tracks suiting Ashwin and Jadeja more than Warne. See, at the end of the day, it's really all speculations (mr. Obvious here). I just think had I had to put a bet on a team, I would put one on India.

2010s India is more dominant at home than 2000s India but the latter was still very hard to beat at home. 2010s India simply didn't face the quality of teams that 2000s India did too. It's not just about 2010s India being too good.

 

[capt_Luffy]

2010s India is more dominant at home than 2000s India, but the latter basically only lost one series that decade to Australia and none in the 90s. 2010s India simply didn't face the quality of teams that 2000s India did too. It's not just about 2010s India being too good.

No, it's not that 2010s India is too good, they afterall lost a home series to England in 2013. And that's the thing, I am counting that result with the previous team, not the current one. I think this team you can count like from 2015 onwards proper. And also to mention, India drew a number of home series in the 90s and 00s as well.

 

[subshakerz]

No, it's not that 2010s India is too good, they afterall lost a home series to England in 2013. And that's the thing, I am counting that result with the previous team, not the current one. I think this team you can count like from 2015 onwards proper. And also to mention, India drew a number of home series in the 90s and 00s as well.

Ok but let's say this team runs down in a few years and loses an odd series like Dhonis team in 2012, will you consider that representative of their general home reign?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ok but let's say this team runs down in a few years and loses an odd series like Dhonis team in 2012, will you consider that representative of their general home reign?

No. But that doesn't mean it won't be a big stain on their resume. To begin with, I think we need to clear out who are "this team". I think it's main components has always been among currents Kohli, Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami and among previous ones, Pujara, Rahane, Umesh, Ishant, Saha (Bumrah is a big contributor away, but in this dominant home team, he hardly played). So like if in 3 years, Kohli and Ashwin retires and Jadeja and Shami are on their last leg, I think you could hardly consider them the same team.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I didn't think we were talking about the current side? If that's the case theyd get destroyed by that Australian team.

 

[Himannv]

Jadeja would run through them like butter runs through cheese.

 

[subshakerz]

Jadeja would run through them like butter runs through cheese.

As would Warne through India.

 

[subshakerz]

I didn't think we were talking about the current side? If that's the case theyd get destroyed by that Australian team.

I assume India 2010s at their best and the others at their best.

 

[Himannv]

As would Warne through India.

I think it’s more likely he will walk or get a taxi.

 

[Prince EWS]

As would Warne through India.

Depends if we're talking about a match fit Warne, or Shane Warne bowling in India with a broken toenail.

 

[Xix2565]

Nostalgia merchants in full flow are a sight to see tbh.