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Is Adam Gilchrist an ATG Test Batsman?

Gilly is an ATG batsman

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 63.6%

  • Of course

    Votes: 4 36.4%
  • Total voters
    11
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Come on man; do you really think Gilly is levels above someone like VVS or Pietersen or even Mathew Hayden on pure batting alone?
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
If there is anything that an unassuming scrapper like Henry Nicholls averaging 45 at one point has taught me, it's that a rising tide lifts all boats in the team. Nicholls doesn't average near that in 2005.

If your top 6 are great and you get to bat 7, you're far more likely to score runs. That's not to label Gilly a downhill skier because he wasn't, but he's not the batsman to bat #4 and build the team around. He is the perfect role player (every team needs them), and a vital icing of making that Australian side unfair, but he was never the foundation.

So no, he wasn't an ATG batsman. He is one of the first names in the ATG World XI though.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Flem274* said:
If there is anything that an unassuming scrapper like Henry Nicholls averaging 45 at one point has taught me, it's that a rising tide lifts all boats in the team. Nicholls doesn't average near that in 2005.

If your top 6 are great and you get to bat 7, you're far more likely to score runs. That's not to label Gilly a downhill skier because he wasn't, but he's not the batsman to bat #4 and build the team around. He is the perfect role player (every team needs them), and a vital icing of making that Australian side unfair, but he was never the foundation.

So no, he wasn't an ATG batsman. He is one of the first names in the ATG World XI though.
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I can't argue against any of this, just believe situationally that his runs were impactful, especially the pace they were scored. Plus his average wasn't that far off, but factoring era, I'll concede to your position.
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
kyear2 said:
I can't argue against any of this, just believe situationally that his runs were impactful, especially the pace they were scored. Plus his average wasn't that far off, but factoring era, I'll concede to your position.
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I've got his average standardising down to 42.92 when factoring in era, opposition, conditions etc. That's a very significant drop. Relatively poor longevity compared to most ATGs too, although I typically do give him a pass for that because he played until he was 37 - he was just picked late and likely would have actually averaged a bit more if he picked a couple of years earlier.

I don't care about his strike rate which I know we part on philosophically, but I know you don't mind my standardised averages project for what it actually sets out to do so I thought I'd bring it up. It ranks him at 128th near Herschelle Gibbs - if you give him two years' grace on the longevity front he'd end in the 90s near Richie Richardson and David Boon. I think even if you give him points for strike rate he's just too far off, and that's not even taking into account the relatively easy ride he got batting 7 in an ATG batting lineup.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Prince EWS said:
I've got his average standardising down to 42.92 when factoring in era, opposition, conditions etc. That's a very significant drop. Relatively poor longevity compared to most ATGs too, although I typically do give him a pass for that because he played until he was 37 - he was just picked late and likely would have actually averaged a bit more if he picked a couple of years earlier.

I don't care about his strike rate which I know we part on philosophically, but I know you don't mind my standardised averages project for what it actually sets out to do so I thought I'd bring it up. It ranks him at 128th near Herschelle Gibbs - if you give him two years' grace on the longevity front he'd end in the 90s near Richie Richardson and David Boon. I think even if you give him points for strike rate he's just too far off, and that's not even taking into account the relatively easy ride he got batting 7 in an ATG batting lineup.
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I think Gilchrist being around Boon's level is about fair
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Prince EWS said:
I've got his average standardising down to 42.92 when factoring in era, opposition, conditions etc. That's a very significant drop. Relatively poor longevity compared to most ATGs too, although I typically do give him a pass for that because he played until he was 37 - he was just picked late and likely would have actually averaged a bit more if he picked a couple of years earlier.

I don't care about his strike rate which I know we part on philosophically, but I know you don't mind my standardised averages project for what it actually sets out to do so I thought I'd bring it up. It ranks him at 128th near Herschelle Gibbs - if you give him two years' grace on the longevity front he'd end in the 90s near Richie Richardson and David Boon. I think even if you give him points for strike rate he's just too far off, and that's not even taking into account the relatively easy ride he got batting 7 in an ATG batting lineup.
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As you alluded to, the only area where we would differ would be the strike rate. Coming in that late and laying the sword to the opposition turned matches, rather than someone coming in and slowing down the momentum and possibly costing the team said victory. His ability to counter lunch was also valuable and he has to rank among the 4 most valuable members of that great squad.

That being said, I do concede to your overall position.
 
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