Burgey
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Saving a place for Dilhara Fernando.
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Top 10 Greatest Fast Bowlers of All Time in Tests?
- Thread starter gggsaffa12
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
TheJediBrah
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Lahiru Gamage underrated in this thread
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
lol you kid
kyear2
International Coach
Interesting re read, not the thread I was looking for, but had a quiet first day of the year.
First if all, my top 10 has changed quite a bit.
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
Wasim
Garner
Lindwall, Holding, Trueman, Cummins, Davidson.
While contemplating that Cummins was now quickly approaching the top 10, I also happened to reflect on his last match, specifically with regards to Hadlee.
Now I'm not going to pretend that a single match does a career represent, but it was enlightening to a limited extent. The Aussie attack looked totally different when Cummins wasn't bowling and Pakistan almost made a run for the total and that was somewhat what Hadlee dealt with for most of his career. But when Cummins came back on, he took wickets, he impacted, he swung the game. He wasn't hindered by his teammates lack of penetration, it gave him more opportunities and he took them.
Now again, I stress that I'm not saying that this was ideal, and it might wear on him mentally if that was the norm, but it didn't seem to hinder him in this instance either. Guess what I'm saying is that champions find a way, and with an average of 22 with a strike rate of 50 Hadlee's numbers were as good as it gets.
As someone also pointed out it's a double edged sword, he would have to bowl through tough conditions, but also got the most out of the great ones as well.
Earlier in the thread a poster ranked M&M 6th and 7th because of added support, but Marshall's best performances often seemed to be on less helpful tracks, because on helpful ones they shared the spoils. Watching highlights from a '94 match, Maco made the first strike, but by the time he came back on, they were 5 down.
Additionally his support was never quite what many believed, from '83 Holding was somewhat on the decline and increasingly injury prone, Walsh wasn't close to what he would become, and for as good as he was no one ever mistook Garner as the leader of the pack. Just compare the wpm and 5 wicket hauls. Also of note MM maintained a wpm of 6 during his prime, not exactly riding in the back seat. And of course on top of a much heavier work schedule the team never got the relief of minnows.
With regards to the extended Wasim conversation, don't know if he's over or under rated, and some of the over dissection of stats were really over the top and quite unnecessary, there however is no doubt that he wasn't at 100% the last few years and he did suffer from a lack of catching support that many of the other bowlers on the list benefitted from. Though he did seem to make up for it with targeting the stumps, it does hurt to restrict an avenue of dismissal.
There ends my pointless rant.
First if all, my top 10 has changed quite a bit.
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
Wasim
Garner
Lindwall, Holding, Trueman, Cummins, Davidson.
While contemplating that Cummins was now quickly approaching the top 10, I also happened to reflect on his last match, specifically with regards to Hadlee.
Now I'm not going to pretend that a single match does a career represent, but it was enlightening to a limited extent. The Aussie attack looked totally different when Cummins wasn't bowling and Pakistan almost made a run for the total and that was somewhat what Hadlee dealt with for most of his career. But when Cummins came back on, he took wickets, he impacted, he swung the game. He wasn't hindered by his teammates lack of penetration, it gave him more opportunities and he took them.
Now again, I stress that I'm not saying that this was ideal, and it might wear on him mentally if that was the norm, but it didn't seem to hinder him in this instance either. Guess what I'm saying is that champions find a way, and with an average of 22 with a strike rate of 50 Hadlee's numbers were as good as it gets.
As someone also pointed out it's a double edged sword, he would have to bowl through tough conditions, but also got the most out of the great ones as well.
Earlier in the thread a poster ranked M&M 6th and 7th because of added support, but Marshall's best performances often seemed to be on less helpful tracks, because on helpful ones they shared the spoils. Watching highlights from a '94 match, Maco made the first strike, but by the time he came back on, they were 5 down.
Additionally his support was never quite what many believed, from '83 Holding was somewhat on the decline and increasingly injury prone, Walsh wasn't close to what he would become, and for as good as he was no one ever mistook Garner as the leader of the pack. Just compare the wpm and 5 wicket hauls. Also of note MM maintained a wpm of 6 during his prime, not exactly riding in the back seat. And of course on top of a much heavier work schedule the team never got the relief of minnows.
With regards to the extended Wasim conversation, don't know if he's over or under rated, and some of the over dissection of stats were really over the top and quite unnecessary, there however is no doubt that he wasn't at 100% the last few years and he did suffer from a lack of catching support that many of the other bowlers on the list benefitted from. Though he did seem to make up for it with targeting the stumps, it does hurt to restrict an avenue of dismissal.
There ends my pointless rant.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Marshall
Mcgrath
Hadlee
Imran/Steyn
Ambrose
Unsure about the rest
Mcgrath
Hadlee
Imran/Steyn
Ambrose
Unsure about the rest
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
Cummins has definitely moved up from the spot (20) he held when CW voted on fast bowlers a couple of years back. Maybe not Top 10 but around the 12-15 mark.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Ambrose
Steyn
Anderson
Imran
Akram
Lillee
Trueman
McGrath
Hadlee
Ambrose
Steyn
Anderson
Imran
Akram
Lillee
Trueman
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
My Post 1900s pacers only:
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Ambrose
Steyn
Akram
Lillee
Imran
Trueman
Holding
Garner
Donald
Lindwall
Davidson
Waqar
Pollock
Walsh
Roberts
Anderson
Cummins
Rabada
Willis
Statham
Miller
Larwood
Dev
Akhtar
Philander
Adcock
Snow
Tyson
Botham
Broad
Hall
Bumrah
P Pollock
Gillespie
Bishop
Mahmood
Croft
Vaas
Griffith
Streak
Thomson
Boult
Wegner
McDonald
Starc
Shami
Morkel
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Ambrose
Steyn
Akram
Lillee
Imran
Trueman
Holding
Garner
Donald
Lindwall
Davidson
Waqar
Pollock
Walsh
Roberts
Anderson
Cummins
Rabada
Willis
Statham
Miller
Larwood
Dev
Akhtar
Philander
Adcock
Snow
Tyson
Botham
Broad
Hall
Bumrah
P Pollock
Gillespie
Bishop
Mahmood
Croft
Vaas
Griffith
Streak
Thomson
Boult
Wegner
McDonald
Starc
Shami
Morkel
Last edited:
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
A comprehensive list and not too controversial. I'd have Cummins in the same region as Pollock, Walsh and Roberts and I rate Garner, Donald and possibly Lindwall matginally above Holding. I do agree with you ranking of Thomson. Over-rated in many other quarters.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Wouldn’t put Bumrah that much below Rabada
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I would put Bumrah in the top 25 if he manages similar record over 50-60 matches. But 30 matches is a really small sample size, with which Tyson struggles too.
He wasn't voting for Anderson or Cummins, he was voting for Anderson Cummins.
Coronis
International Coach
Just curious - because iirc you’ve specifically lauded Marshall’s individual numbers despite being part of such a strong attack - you’re now going back on this and saying he wasn’t really part of such a strong attack and that makes him more impressive?
kyear2
International Coach
What made him impressive was his pace, his skill set, his adaptability and ability to perform on all different types of pitches and conditions.
He had without doubt the most competition for wickets of any great bowler, yet still managed to maintain a ridiculously high wpm, slightly higher than McGrath and similarly slightly below Steyn.
What I was contesting was that he was the beneficiary of better bowlers and was just along for the ride. He drove the car, he was undoubtedly and demonstrably the leader of the pack, they benefitted from his performances.
Hope that makes sense.
