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***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2023/24

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
This is the other **** part about it. Has strong potential to make the cricket worse. 80 overs a day of high quality fast bowling is better than 60 overs + 30 overs of enforced part time finger spin
Except this is never the case, because the time wastage is almost always when teams are stuffing around when they're bowling badly. Like England in the 21/22 Ashes, unless you consider Chris Woakes overseas ''quality fast bowling'.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I know one of them is Scuba O'Donnell, who seems to be priming himself for filling the 'old man shouting at clouds' role previously held by messers N.Harvey, Chappell(s) etc, with Mitchell Johnson lining up as a newcomer.

I don't even read Australian media and I've seen three articles from him on NZ being too nice because we gave Kohli his bat with cramp, no one in the ground in Perth acknowledged Warner's 100 and now (these are the words I remember) that the Perth pitch was dangerous because 'world class player' Mitchell Marsh got hit in the head by a guy bowling 127.
Marsh got hit on the head trying to hit the ball over the Swan River with a front foot pull. Like, had he not been trying to score at a Bazball rate he might have simply got out of the way.
 

ataraxia

International Coach
I think Bazball should be banned while we're here; just too dangerous. Same for T20, where the risk to spectators is palpable.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
wrong, literally has happened when teams are behind the over rate
Maybe try reading my comment again. When have we seen 'high quality' fast bowling taken off? We've seen fast bowlers taken off when teams haven't been going well, yes, but the goes against the point as it can't be high quality and poor. Teams that are going well tend to stuff around with the field less too, which reduces time wastage.

The allowances for lost time seem to be quite generous, and teams only need to save a few seconds an over. Things like bowlers not taking a circular walk to the start of their run, and setting the field as the new batsman is coming out (they've analysed them beforehand... right?) rather than after they've taken their guard all save time and throw the responsibility back onto the batsmen.
 
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TheJediBrah

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Maybe try reading my comment again. When have we seen 'high quality' fast bowling taken off? We've seen fast bowlers taken off when teams haven't been going well, yes, but the goes against the point as it can't be high quality and poor.
Now you're just playing semantics. Point is it can, and probably will, lead to lower quality cricket with more overs from spinners than better fast bowlers for a lot of teams. Regardless of whether you want to classify the bowling as "poor" or any other adjective
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Now you're just playing semantics. Point is it can, and probably will, lead to lower quality cricket with more overs from spinners than better fast bowlers for a lot of teams. Regardless of whether you want to classify the bowling as "poor" or any other adjective
It's not playing semantics. Your argument doesn't stack up when teams are bowling rubbish. In some cases - like Pakistan in this test - putting on the spinner actually helps bring things under control.

If you watch you'll see a lot of time is wasted adjusting the field. In my observation teams that are bowling well and not having to try plans they never even thought of before the match lose less time from this, as they aren't adjusting the field as much.
 

TheJediBrah

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It's not playing semantics. Your argument doesn't stack up when teams are bowling rubbish.
Maybe try reading my comment again. You think I said it would happen every time? I don't care about when teams are "bowling rubbish", or when they have really good spinners. That's not relevant to the scenario I put forward, which has happened, and will again
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Maybe try reading my comment again. You think I said it would happen every time? I don't care about when teams are "bowling rubbish". That's not relevant to the scenario I put forward, which has happened, and will again
And when has it happened? Certainly not a common thing, if it has. My scenario covers what I actually see happening, yours is one that gets dragged up time again but seems to be much less in evidence.

And as I pointed out above, shouldn't be hard for teams to save time by cutting out stuffing around. Ten seconds an over will probably be more than enough.
 

TheJediBrah

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And when has it happened? Certainly not a common thing, if it has. My scenario covers what I actually see happening, yours is one that gets dragged up time again but seems to be much less in evidence.

And as I pointed out above, shouldn't be hard for teams to save time by cutting out stuffing around. Ten seconds an over will probably be more than enough.
I didn't say it was common, but this clearly is likely to make it more common.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I didn't say it was common, but this clearly is likely to make it more common.
Why? You're just making an argument based on some theoretical possibility rather than what actually happens.

Considering how much standing around I saw in the Pakistan test (ironically, especially when Salman was bowling) I'd rather that there was less of that.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes which was very clear in my initial post.

Also wouldn't have called it an "argument". More of a concerned prediction
It's a poor argument/concerned prediction, because of what I said - teams tend to get through the overs slower when their bowling is bad. You're probably not losing 20 overs of 'high quality fast bowling' as in your example.

And even if there is sufficient 'high quality fast bowling', teams can try cut out stuffing around before pulling bowlers.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Maybe try reading my comment again. When have we seen 'high quality' fast bowling taken off? We've seen fast bowlers taken off when teams haven't been going well, yes, but the goes against the point as it can't be high quality and poor. Teams that are going well tend to stuff around with the field less too, which reduces time wastage.

The allowances for lost time seem to be quite generous, and teams only need to save a few seconds an over. Things like bowlers not taking a circular walk to the start of their run, and setting the field as the new batsman is coming out (they've analysed them beforehand... right?) rather than after they've taken their guard all save time and throw the responsibility back onto the batsmen.
Yeah but is it really better for cricket if you get five overs of Root bowling darts than three overs of Woakes bowling crap medium pace with the old ball?

Like it probably isn't actually worse, but it is better if that's what we achieve?

If this **** incentivises captains to rush through overs then it's probably fine on balance. If it makes them change who is actually bowling then it's a net negative.

I will paradoxically admit that I kind of like the ridiculously OTT WTC penalties because I think it totally devalues that 'league' in a way I enjoy because it shouldn't ****ing exist. But all the same.
 

TheJediBrah

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If there's even the slightest hint that over rate penalties affect the result of the WTC it's even more of a joke than ot already is, which is considerable
 

Qlder

International Debutant
If Aus beats Pakistan at MCG they will have 50.00% WTC, which is equal 2nd with NZ and Bangladesh (why weren't they fined for terrible over rates in last 2 tests?)

Anyone know the tie-breaker for teams on equal %
 

TheJediBrah

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Maybe it will be great and everyone will just bowl their overs faster and solve the issue forever I don't know but I guess I'm not that optimistic
 

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