Greatest Test XI

[kyear2]

I think each team has its own USP

Steve Waugh's had Gilchrist coming in at 7, and Warne to bowl leg spin.
Lloyd's team had the best pace attack in history. Marshall - Holding - Garner played in 26 tests together and lost only one.
The invincibles had Bradman; and an ATG allrounder in Miller.

I think the Bradman factor is likely to take that team past the white line most of the time.

From my observations of the game, great bowling impacts batsmen more than the other way round.

But valid points

 

[peterhrt]

Would be interested in the takes of @Prince EWS , @bagapath and @peterhrt

West Indies during the first half of the 1980s for me. Great bowling and fielding. Batsmen adept against pace and spin. As mentioned by others, left-handers Kallicharran, Lloyd and Gomes would counter Warne (who averaged 28 against all left-handers). WI made various changes without seeming to weaken the side.

The 1948 Australians were called the Invincibles because they were the first tourists to go through an English first-class season unbeaten. County bowling was weak. Turning 40 in August, Bradman was no longer the world's best batsman. By his own admission his eyesight was going and he couldn't run properly. Otherwise he wouldn't have retired.

Lindwall and Miller were both dropped by Australia within eighteen months of the end of the tour. Neither relished long spells due to wartime ailments. Miller with back issues and Lindwall because of painful chafing, a legacy of jungle warfare in Papua New Guinea. With this in mind Bradman proposed a new ball after 55 overs, which England foolishly agreed to.

Waugh's team just above Bradman's.

 

[wpdavid]

No idea why but West Indies didn't unleash Malcom Marshall on Australia until their 1984 home series. So the fearsome pace quartet I remember in 1980 was Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft.

They also had Lawrence Rowe instead of Bacchus on that tour so arguably an even better WI Team that thrashed Australia that year (which started their #1 dominance for the decade)

Yes, that was my argument in favour of the 1980 side ahead of the 1984 version when this was discussed a few months ago. Plus Lloyd was closer to his peak then, and, arguably Richards too. Maybe Holding as well.

 

[kyear2]

Yes, that was my argument in favour of the 1980 side ahead of the 1984 version when this was discussed a few months ago. Plus Lloyd was closer to his peak then, and, arguably Richards too. Maybe Holding as well.

Agree it's arguable, I listed both in the thread.

 

[Anthony Clayden]

On which ground....

The Windies of the 80's were awesome, but my memories of their weakness on a turning pitch (eg SCG in the 80s).
On a turning pitch, the other sides would maul them...

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team West Indies

At ground AUS: Sydney Cricket Ground

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1980 and 1 Jan 1990

Totals in terms of batting team

Ordered by matches won (descending)

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Showing 1 - 1 of 1

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Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	Draw	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
West Indies	1982-1989	3	0	2	0	1	0.000	25.58	2.81	6	384	163

 

[Qlder]

On which ground....

The Windies of the 80's were awesome, but my memories of their weakness on a turning pitch (eg SCG in the 80s).
On a turning pitch, the other sides would maul them...

West Indies played 83 Tests in the 80's and only lost 8 of them. Only 3 losses were on turning decks, 2 at the SCG where nobody beat Australia in the '80's

1984 SCG (Hollland took 10 wkts)
1988 Chennai (Hirwani took 16 wkts)
1989 SCG (Border took 11 wkts)

The other 5 losses:
1980 vs NZ (spin took 1 wkt)
1981 vs Aus (spin took 5 wkts)
1986 vs Pak (Imran & Akram 11 wkts)
1987 vz NZ (pace took all 20 wkts)
1988 vs Pak (Imran & Akram 12 wkts)

 

[kyear2]

On which ground....

The Windies of the 80's were awesome, but my memories of their weakness on a turning pitch (eg SCG in the 80s).
On a turning pitch, the other sides would maul them...

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team West Indies

At ground AUS: Sydney Cricket Ground

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1980 and 1 Jan 1990

Totals in terms of batting team

Ordered by matches won (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 1 of 1

First Previous

Next Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Team	Span	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	Draw	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
West Indies	1982-1989	3	0	2	0	1	0.000	25.58	2.81	6	384	163

Well I would imagine it would be a 5 test series. All 5 can't be at the SCG.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Think there's a bit of hyperbole in there.

Yeah.. Imran was a league below Procter.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah.. Imran was a league below Procter.

You can't even believe that, lol

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Don't forget Barlow, Lee Irvine, Garth Le Roux, and perhaps Tony Greig

6/7 ATGs + 3/4 ATVGs


And the combination is perfect too.
2 ATG Batsmen + 2 ATG allrounders + 2 ATG bowlers

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You can't even believe that, lol

Batting and fielding - Procter easily better.
Bowling - Arguable.

 

[wpdavid]

Imagine...Sachin, Lara, Imran, Kapil, Mcgrath, Shaun pollock.. Etc playing in a team..

That would have been 70s SA
G. Pollock, B. Richards, Procter, Rice, vander bijl, P. Pollock ..

Van de Bijl played a few years after P. Pollock didn't he? Not sure they'd have played in the same SA side even without isolation.
Not that 70s SA weren't terrific even so.

EDIT
Only 7 years difference; a bit less than I thought. Perhaps they would have overlapped a bit, although Pollock would have been getting on by then.

 

[wpdavid]

Don't forget Barlow, Lee Irvine, Garth Le Roux, and perhaps Tony Greig

Now surely Le Roux really was far too young to have played alongside Peter Pollock.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Van de Bijl played a few years after P. Pollock didn't he? Not sure they'd have played in the same SA side even without isolation.
Not that 70s SA weren't terrific even so.

EDIT
Only 7 years difference; a bit less than I thought. Perhaps they would have overlapped a bit, although Pollock would have been getting on by then.

Early 70s, they all will be 23-33 age group iirc.

 

[wpdavid]

Early 70s, they all will be 23-33 age group iirc.

Big Vince would have been, as he turned 23 in 1971, so fair enough. Likewise Pollock, who only turned 30 in 1971.

But Le Roux was born in 1955, so he wouldn't have been a viable pick until the later 1970s.

 

[wpdavid]

It has surprised me how many of them didn't play in England when I was watching the game from the early 1970s. I don't think Van de Bijl did until around 1980, which is why I'd assumed he was a bit younger. And tbh I'd never heard of Lee irvine. cricinfo tells me he played for Essex in the late 1960s but I don't remember him playing in the 1970s, when he was still a relatively young man.

 

[Coronis]

Batting and fielding - Procter easily better.
Bowling - Arguable.

Hmm.. agreeing on this one. Bowling is the one where they’re likely closest but I’ll look at their county stat comparisons where they both played.

Procter (1968-1981) 259 matches 14441 runs @ 36.19, 32 tons, 833 wickets @ 19.56, 45.95 SR, 42 5’fers, 209 catches

Imran (1975-1988) 173 matches 8537 runs @ 38.30, 17 tons, 537 wickets @ 21.08, 47.92 SR, 27 5’fers, 51 catches

I’d say there’s little to differentiate them in bowling, at least in England. Procter could have fallen anywhere from 6th to 15th+ on the fast bowling list if he’d had a full career, the gaps are quite small.

In terms of batting it seems like Procter was closer to a Botham type than an Imran type, though that’s just my interpretation. Fielding is obviously NC. Captaincy obviously goes to Imran (though Procter certainly had success in that department in county/list A cricket too)

 

[ataraxia]

guys casually talking about how Mike Procter is the GOAT cricketer

 

[kyear2]

Hmm.. agreeing on this one. Bowling is the one where they’re likely closest but I’ll look at their county stat comparisons where they both played.

Procter (1968-1981) 259 matches 14441 runs @ 36.19, 32 tons, 833 wickets @ 19.56, 45.95 SR, 42 5’fers, 209 catches

Imran (1975-1988) 173 matches 8537 runs @ 38.30, 17 tons, 537 wickets @ 21.08, 47.92 SR, 27 5’fers, 51 catches

I’d say there’s little to differentiate them in bowling, at least in England. Procter could have fallen anywhere from 6th to 15th+ on the fast bowling list if he’d had a full career, the gaps are quite small.

In terms of batting it seems like Procter was closer to a Botham type than an Imran type, though that’s just my interpretation. Fielding is obviously NC. Captaincy obviously goes to Imran (though Procter certainly had success in that department in county/list A cricket too)

Wondering "what if" if they would have had a full career, while sometimes I wonder in retrospect, why they were allowed to play as long as they did.

 

[Coronis]

guys casually talking about how Mike Procter is the GOAT cricketer

Where did I ever say that?