Greatest Test XI

[bagapath]

No idea why but West Indies didn't unleash Malcom Marshall on Australia until their 1984 home series. So the fearsome pace quartet I remember in 1980 was Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft.

They also had Lawrence Rowe instead of Bacchus so arguably an even better WI Team that thrashed Australia that year (which started their #1 dominance for the decade)

Marshall's breakthrough series was the West Indies tour of India in 1983. The Kanpur test ("Marshall Law in Kanpur" was the newspaper headline) made him the spearhead of the pace quartet. Until then he had played 13 tests in almost five years only when one of the original quartet was injured. By 1983 Croft's career was over after he joined the rebels. Roberts retired after the India tour. Marshall took over the strike bowler's role with Garner becoming the main partner and Holding taking the third position.

 

[kyear2]

I’d back peak Viv to take down Mcgrath.

I agree.

 

[kyear2]

Plus the Shane Warne factor doesn’t clinch it for Aus for me, since Marshall was great on all types of pitches(and thus Aus won’t be favourites on a spinning deck), and Warne was taken down by good players of spin(so Lloyd, Gomes would have his measure). The windies also have 4 ATG quicks, so there is no one Aus can target.

I agree on all three points.

In another thread I pointed out what set Marshall apart from most pacers was his ability to succeed on even slower or spinning pitches. Sydney, India, Bourda / Port of Spain.

As great as Warne was he was maneuvered by good players of spin and dominated by great ones.

If we use the '80 or '83 versions of the pace attack, there weren't weak links to target.

 

[kyear2]

the 1948 team is like to win more than the other two great teams - because of Bradman

Not that it's irrefutable or means anything, but Marshall lost less games than Bradman over their career.

 

[trundler]

Umm, Hammond had trouble with Martindale and Constantine, don't see how he would handle this attack.

Richards had trouble with Chandrasekhar so Warne would kill him

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

The Invincibles probably missed their absolute peak, thanks to War. No, O’Reilly is a massive setback but he was already 43. Even then in a tournament of all ATG Team, I would put my money on The Invincibles.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The Invincibles probably missed their absolute peak, thanks to War. No, O’Reilly is a massive setback but he was already 43. Even then in a tournament of all ATG Team, I would put my money on The Invincibles.

Bradman factor is a bit unfair

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Richards had trouble with Chandrasekhar so Warne would kill him

Nah. Richards had trouble vs him in one or two matches of his debut tour. Overall he had a good debut tour vs the quartet in Ind, and he smashed them in West Indies(this did not happen when Chandrashekhar was not as his peak, and the spinners took plenty of wickets in this series, so it was not on wickets that neutralised spin). Richards also dominated Qadir in the 1980 tour of Pak, dominated him in 1987 Pak in WI tour. Richards was a very good player of spin, not in the pantheon of Lara, Tendulkar and all tho. Richards vs Warne would be interesting, but WI have Lloyd and Gomes to handle Warne.

 

[h_hurricane]

Rare video of Viv vs Warne.

 

[kyear2]

Nah. Richards had trouble vs him in one or two matches of his debut tour. Overall he had a good debut tour vs the quartet in Ind, and he smashed them in West Indies(this did not happen when Chandrashekhar was not as his peak, and the spinners took plenty of wickets in this series, so it was not on wickets that neutralised spin). Richards also dominated Qadir in the 1980 tour of Pak, dominated him in 1987 Pak in WI tour. Richards was a very good player of spin, not in the pantheon of Lara, Tendulkar and all tho. Richards vs Warne would be interesting, but WI have Lloyd and Gomes to handle Warne.

Viv did improve as he played them more, and as we both pointed out, Gomes, Lloyd and to a lesser extent Greenidge (and depending on team Kallicharran) would be more than a match for Warne..

But the two great men going head to head would indeed be something to see.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Viv did improve as he played them more, and as we both pointed out, Gomes, Lloyd and to a lesser extent Greenidge (and depending on team Kallicharran) would be more than a match for Warne..

But the two great men going head to head would indeed be something to see.

The thing is, Viv really didn't played many ATG spinners in their primes and/or in their turfs. So it's really hard to guess how he would handle Warne but it would an interesting battle nonetheless. Also, Gomes was a good player of spin, but really, was he that good to say he could handle Warne easily?

 

[bagapath]

The thing is, Viv really didn't played many ATG spinners in their primes and/or in their turfs. So it's really hard to guess how he would handle Warne but it would an interesting battle nonetheless. Also, Gomes was a good player of spin, but really, was he that good to say he could handle Warne easily?

He played the Indian spinners at their absolute prime in India in 1974-75. And he played Qadir in Pakistan in his prime in the mid 80s. Those were the great spinners of that era.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He played the Indian spinners at their absolute prime in India in 1974-75. And he played Qadir in Pakistan in his prime in the mid 80s. Those were the great spinners of that era.

I think that was a very decent series for Viv; he had one 192 not out (albeit in the absence of Chandrashekhar) and was pretty Okay for the rest. I don't think I will necessarily say much based on that series. And Abdul Qadir was a good spinner; but in the last CW spinners ranking, he didn't cracked top 30 at the expense of Keshav Maharaj and I am not sure if I rate him very highly.

 

[Krypto]

Very close IMO between 1983 and 2002 and the poll kinda shows it . Interesting that Bradman legacy still provided 3 votes for a side that played over 75 years ago .

 

[Line and Length]

Very close IMO opinion between 1983 and 2002 and the poll kinda shows it . Interesting that Bradman legacy still provided 3 votes for a side that played over 75 years ago .

Don't remind me. I was around then - even though a much smaller version.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

The Invincibles
Morris
Barnes
Bradman
Hassett
Miller
Harvey
Johnson
Lindwall
Tallon
Johnston
Toshack

1984* Windies
Greenidge
Haynes
Richardson
Richards
Gomes
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Garner
Holding
Walsh

2002 Aussies
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Waugh
Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

Combined side:

Morris
Greenidge
Bradman
Viv
Ponting
Miller
Gilchrist
Marshall
Warne
Garner
McGrath

1948 (3 but one is Bradman - worth 2 so call it 4)
1984 (4)
2002 (4)

 

[bagapath]

To play

Hayden
Langer
Richardson
Harvey
Lloyd *
S Waugh
Dujon +
Lindwall
Holding
Johnston
Walsh

 

[kyear2]

Very close IMO between 1983 and 2002 and the poll kinda shows it . Interesting that Bradman legacy still provided 3 votes for a side that played over 75 years ago .

Yeah, all 3 sides were brilliant, but the '48 was probably weakest. Comparatively of course

 

[kyear2]

Would be interested in the takes of @Prince EWS , @bagapath and @peterhrt

 

[bagapath]

I think each team has its own USP

Steve Waugh's had Gilchrist coming in at 7, and Warne to bowl leg spin.
Lloyd's team had the best pace attack in history. Marshall - Holding - Garner played in 26 tests together and lost only one.
The invincibles had Bradman; and an ATG allrounder in Miller.

I think the Bradman factor is likely to take that team past the white line most of the time.