Playing Selector: All time great allrounders No.6 - No.10

[Fuller Pilch]

Mate 10 innings batted.

In general, the thing about Procter is the degree to which he dominated FC, not simply that he did. Averaging 36 and 19.5 is Imran-level stuff, and Imran being the greatest cricketer of all time...

I try to make a reasoned, pessimistic guess as to what his test career might resolve as. Bowling then batting, it could be: 28–32; 25–30; 23–25. Any of these are IMO very plausible, given how the plaudits were rained on him for his FC success, and also put him squarely in the conversation for this thread.

Could say the same thing about Clive Rice - 462 1st class matches for a batting ave of 41 and bowling of 22.5.

 

[Prince EWS]

Really? Is it not indecent to edit someone's polls/posts without their approval?
Prince EWS asked me if he could add Davidson, and I let him do it. If I hadn't agreed he wouldn't have.

Yeah as I said above I'm not gonna mess with your polls without permission.

Would appreciate being able to vote for Davo again but if it just makes 90% of the posts in the thread about players noone actually wants for but thinks are better than some others on the poll then it might be better to just go with a hard criteria.

 

[ataraxia]

Could say the same thing about Clive Rice - 462 1st class matches for a batting ave of 41 and bowling of 22.5.

Yeah I rate him too but only 1.93 WPM (not that Procter's is great either).

That lost RSA side was something special.

 

[Coronis]

Yeah I rate him too but only 1.93 WPM (not that Procter's is great either).

That lost RSA side was something special.

iirc Procter had a few injury seasons but would still be able to bat.

Relating them to players who had full test careers I’d say Procter would be closer to Imran - but better as a bat, equal at best but probably a bowling downgrade.

Rice would be more Milleresque. About his level with the bat - but if Miller had been the 4th option on his own team or something with a Kallisish workload. (Rice would likely be coming in behind Procter, Le Roux and Van der Bijl)

Anyway yeah bit off topic.

 

[bagapath]

Hadlee
Faulkner
Kapil
S Pollock
Jadeja

seems to be the call so far
and that sounds good

 

[Prince EWS]

iirc Procter had a few injury seasons but would still be able to bat.

Relating them to players who had full test careers I’d say Procter would be closer to Imran - but better as a bat, equal at best but probably a bowling downgrade.

Rice would be more Milleresque. About his level with the bat - but if Miller had been the 4th option on his own team or something with a Kallisish workload. (Rice would likely be coming in behind Procter, Le Roux and Van der Bijl)

Anyway yeah bit off topic.

We need a Ronnie Irani vs Mike Procter (batting alone) poll.

 

[Coronis]

We need a Ronnie Irani vs Mike Procter (batting alone) poll.

Hard to beat a 90’s English FC bully.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

iirc Procter had a few injury seasons but would still be able to bat.

Relating them to players who had full test careers I’d say Procter would be closer to Imran - but better as a bat, equal at best but probably a bowling downgrade.

Rice would be more Milleresque. About his level with the bat - but if Miller had been the 4th option on his own team or something with a Kallisish workload. (Rice would likely be coming in behind Procter, Le Roux and Van der Bijl)

Anyway yeah bit off topic.

And also remember that Eddie Barlow and Tony Greig could've also been in these hypothetical SA sides.

 

[kyear2]

Hadlee
Faulkner
Kapil
S Pollock
Jadeja

seems to be the call so far
and that sounds good

Genuinely shocked Hammond received only 2 votes. ATG bat and very nice, and nippy bowling option who could rev up the speed when motivated. Just as much as an all rounder as Hadlee and brings more value than any of the others listed after him.

 

[bagapath]

Based on http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/playing-selector-top-five-test-all-rounders-ever.91282/ and this thread the top 10 test allrounders according to CW are:

1. Sir Gary Sobers
2. Imran Khan
3. Keith Miller
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Lord Ian Botham
6. Sir Richard Hadlee
7. George Aubrey Faulkner
8. Kapil Dev
9. Shaun Pollock
10. Ravinder Jadeja

The final five positions can be chosen here:

Playing Selector: All time great allrounders No.11 - No.15: FINAL POLL

Based on http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/playing-selector-top-five-test-all-rounders-ever.91282/ and http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/playing-selector-all-time-great-allrounders-no-6-no-10.91302/ the top 10 test allrounders according to CW are: Sir Gary Sobers Imran Khan Keith...

www.cricketweb.net

 

[Qlder]

I'm out as this thread isn't fun anymore. It still made me keep 1 vote so Davo it is

Based on http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/playing-selector-top-five-test-all-rounders-ever.91282/ and this thread the top 10 test allrounders according to CW are:

1. Sir Gary Sobers
2. Imran Khan
3. Keith Miller
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Lord Ian Botham
6. Sir Richard Hadlee
7. George Aubrey Faulkner
8. Kapil Dev
9. Shaun Pollock
10. Ravinder Jadeja

Faulkner and Kapil both have 18 votes so how was the tie-breaker for 7th decided?

 

[Bolo.]

Yeah I rate him too but only 1.93 WPM (not that Procter's is great either).

That lost RSA side was something special.

Not just his low WPM for me, his style. The hit the deck hard stuff from guys that aren't tall or express can be good at bullying FC if you are good at it, but at test level (and especially in less favourable condition) these bowlers are usually found a bit wanting. Might be a bit biased against him though. Only remember watching him play when he was in his 40s

Would have a lot more faith in Procter's bowling style. Big late movement is tough at any level, plus his offspin must have been pretty good if WSC wasn't a giant fluke- AUS is a tough place for offies.

His WPM in FC is actually solid BTW.

3.5ish WPM, playing almost exclusively 3 day matches, batting middle order and playing through injuries primarily as a bat.

Imran is 3.1WPM for comparison, with similar injury issues. But he batted lower and played more 4 day games than Procter.

 

[Jarquis]

Any criteria set by anybody in an internet discussion forum is going to be arbitrary. Your thread will be pretty much ‘rank Jarquis’s chosen list of players as allrounders' at best. it won't be marked in the history of mankind as the definitive discussion on this topic.

Procter took 41 test wickets and didn't even score 1000 runs. he doesn't belong in this discussion about test allrounders.

What arbitrary criteria is there by including everyone? Why does it need to be a poll with limited options rather than just allowing people to vote?

 

[bagapath]

What arbitrary criteria is there by including everyone? Why does it need to be a poll with limited options rather than just allowing people to vote?

Everyone means what? Will you include Pete Sampras and Messi and my uncle as options, too?
Obviously you will be defining the term allrounder before you list out the options... So you will be setting a criteria.. and that will be your arbitrary call anyway... If there are poll options, those options are chosen by the person making the poll... it will be limited by your choices when you create one...

 

[Jarquis]

Everyone means what? Will you include Pete Sampras and Messi and my uncle as options, too?
Obviously you will be defining the term allrounder before you list out the options... So you will be setting a criteria.. and that will be your arbitrary call anyway... If there are poll options, those options are chosen by the person making the poll... it will be limited by your choices when you create one...

I’m saying there isn’t the need for a poll. If CW wants to vote for Bruce Lee then why shouldn’t they be able to?

 

[howitzer]

I’m saying there isn’t the need for a poll. If CW wants to vote for Bruce Lee then why shouldn’t they be able to?

Daily reminder that Bruce Lee>Brett Lee

 

[Coronis]

Everyone means what? Will you include Pete Sampras and Messi and my uncle as options, too?
Obviously you will be defining the term allrounder before you list out the options... So you will be setting a criteria.. and that will be your arbitrary call anyway... If there are poll options, those options are chosen by the person making the poll... it will be limited by your choices when you create one...

How is your uncle at cricket? I need full black and white footage and peer reviews before I vote.

 

[bagapath]

I’m saying there isn’t the need for a poll. If CW wants to vote for Bruce Lee then why shouldn’t they be able to?

why should I be asked to create a platform to discuss bruce lee? this is a poll for choosing test allrounders using the criteria I have decided. you are welcome to write a separate post on bruce.

 

[bagapath]

How is your uncle at cricket? I need full black and white footage and peer reviews before I vote.

In the sparsely populated South Indian village where I grew up in the late 70s - early 80s, all the narrow, dusty roads winding through the tiny homes would be totally deserted on blazing hot, eerily quiet afternoons. The stray dogs and impoverished goats would hide from the burning sun under the shade of parked bullock carts. Post lunch was siesta time for everyone. Even the old folks suffering from unbearable chronic pains would take a small nap and wake up at sunset to continue their painful lives. In our street, my uncle would be the only one staying up during the peak heat hours; working alone, buried in his dogeared text books solving analytical problems.

Uncle was preparing for his entrance exams to get into a government job. In Indira Gandhi's India that was a sure shot way to a stable life. In his mid 20s, my uncle already had a tendency to disagree with popular opinion. "David Gower is not as elegant as he is made out to be. He is left handed; and that creates an optical illusion". He believed he was capable of observing things that escaped the eyes of most people. "Ronald Reagan tends to smile a lot if he is going to lie". He overanalysed everything. "Good people do good things to feel good about themselves. This selfishness takes away the goodness from the good act".

He wrote the entrance exam every six months, every year, for many years on the trot; and never cleared it. His confidence waned. His shoulders dropped. He avoided eye contact. He stopped greeting people. He didn't get married. He stopped speaking. And he was dead before he turned 30; found lifeless when the town woke up after the siesta on one hot summer evening; in the room next to the dry well.

They say he was not fully there. They say he had brain tumor. They say it was a heart attack. They say his family was cursed. They say he took his own life.

My uncle batted at no 6. He was a hard hitting batsman. Capable of scoring 15-20 runs in 3-4 overs. He was a fast runner between the wickets. I have seen him hit three sixes. One of them cleared the church ground and fell into the priest's garden. His wife refused to return the ball and we had to abandon the game. He called himself a leg spinner. I don't remember him turning the ball from leg to off. He was more of a Kumble type of bowler. He would take wickets regularly and was a star bowler of sorts. He was more effective when he bowled round the wicket.

They say he was not studying for his exams in those quiet afternoons. They say he had an affair with the milk woman who was found walking in and out of the room next to the dry well on many days when she had no reason to enter that room. They say her son, born in the same year of my uncle's death, looks like him. That boy was also a hard hitting lower order batsman and bowled leg spin that didn't turn much. He wrote the same exams, cleared them in one attempt; and he is working for the central government in Delhi now.

 

[Coronis]

In the sparsely populated South Indian village where I grew up in the late 70s - early 80s, all the narrow, dusty roads winding through the tiny homes would be totally deserted on blazing hot, eerily quiet afternoons. The stray dogs and impoverished goats would hide from the burning sun under the shade of parked bullock carts. Post lunch was siesta time for everyone. Even the old folks suffering from unbearable chronic pains would take a small nap and wake up at sunset to continue their painful lives. In our street, my uncle would the only one staying up during the peak heat hours; working alone, buried in his dogeared text books solving analytical problems.

Uncle was preparing for his entrance exams to get into a government job. In Indira Gandhi's India that was the sure shot way to a stable life. In his mid 20s he already had a tendency to disagree with popular opinion. "David Gower is not as elegant as he is made out to be. He is left handed; and that creates an optical illusion". He believed he was capable of observing things that escaped the eyes of most people. "Ronald Reagan tends to smile a lot if he is going to lie". He overanalysed a lot. "Good people do good things to feel good about themselves. This selfishness takes away the goodness from the good act".

He wrote the entrance exam every six months, every year for many years on the trot; and never cleared it. His confidence waned. His shoulders dropped. He avoided eye contact. He stopped greeting people. He didn't get married. He stopped speaking. And he was dead before he turned 30; found lifeless when the town woke up after the siesta on one hot summer evening; in the room next to the dry well.

They say he was not fully there. They say he had brain tumor. They say it was a heart attack. They say his family was cursed. They say he took his own life.

My uncle batted at no 6. He was a hard hitting batsman. Capable of scoring 15-20 runs in 3-4 overs. He was a fast runner between the wickets. I have seen him hit three sixes. One of them cleared the church ground and fell into the priest's garden. His wife refused to return the ball and we had to abandon the game. He called himself a leg spinner. I don't remember him turning the ball from leg to off. He was more of a Kumble type of bowler. He would take wickets regularly and was a star bowler of sorts. He was more effective when he bowled round the wicket.

They say he was not studying for his exams in those quiet afternoons. They say he had an affair with the milk woman who was found walking in and out of the room next to the dry well on many days when she had no reason to walk into that room. They say her son, born in the same year of my uncle's death, looks like him. That boy was also a hard hitting lower order batsman and bowled leg spin that didn't turn much. He wrote the exams, cleared them in one attempt and he is working for the central government in Delhi now.

He’s got my vote