Overrated by CW XI and Underrated by CW XI

[trundler]

Yes Simpson is being judged as an opener, if he filling the opener role in your team, don't think that's egregious. Plus, for the very brief time I was considering him it was primarily because of the added utility of his bowling and catching.

Simpson averaged about 50 even excluding the no rounder phase which was a substantial part of his career which is for some reason totally ignored. Even then he dropped down the order not infrequently and has much worse numbers when not opening which means his opening numbers are somewhat protected because he just didn't open when he was going through a lean patch. He was captain for most of this period too so it's not like he was dicked around by the selectors. Yet his opening average is extrapolated to his entire career despite him opening for only a part of his career and the rest is ignored.

Kallis is a better overall cricketer than either gentleman though. He was a much better batsman, at worst a comparable bowler but his catching just pushes him even further ahead. I think Kallis was actually used perfectly, it's guys like Sobers who were over bowled.

Sure he was better than both because he was a better batsman but his all round output is similar. Worrell especially isn't that far behind him but no one think he's better than Sobers which is ridiculous.

That's a bit harsh on ABbeV

Tad hyperbolic but it's true. He's now given a place in ATG discussions which he never earned during his actual career.

And just to say Border kept that team together and that batting lineup from being destroyed at times. Wasn't an easy era by any means.

Sure but him not batting up the order more and not converting as often as the top dog batsman should are legitimate criticisms.

 

[BazBall21]

Ponsford was more comfortable against spin than pace by all accounts but he was very good at going big. Definitely in the Aussie AT11 conversation if Morris and Bobby are.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Underrated XI:

Ricky Ponting: suffers from longevity bias and edgelordism. Best batsman of an era.





A common theme for most of these.

Didn't 90 % of Ricky's career overlapped with Sachin's?? Also, let's be honest for a moment; he was devastating in flat and bouncy pitches, but had some series problems against swing and especially spin. I don't think him being almost an unanimous top 15 is underrating him...... Hard agree on Lillee and Gibbs though.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Overrated 11

Hobbs -Sutcliffe
Ponting, G.Chappell, Kohli
Sanga
Miller, Imran,
Warne, Ambrose, Mcgrath
12th man S.Pollock

Underrated 11
Gavaskar - Grace
Ranji, G. Pollock, Lara
Les Ames
Procter, Hadlee
Akram, Saqlain, Lillee
12th man Kapil / Botham

 

[trundler]

Miscellaneous overrated players: Graeme Smith, Arthur Morris, Clarrie Grimmett, Shivnarine Chanderpaul

Miscellaneous underrated players: Clyde Walcott, Chris Cairns, Heath Streak, Hedley Verity

 

[trundler]

Didn't 90 % of Ricky's career overlapped with Sachin's?? Also, let's be honest for a moment; he was devastating in flat and bouncy pitches, but had some series problems against swing and especially spin. I don't think him being almost an unanimous top 15 is underrating him...... Hard agree on Lillee and Gibbs though.

I didn't say his career but era. He was the best batsman of his generation. And this is a typical revisionist post which underplays his strengths and overplays his weaknesses. He had trouble against Harbhajan but he did very well against Murali in SL so can't have been a hopeless player of spin and I doubt someone with serious issues against movement could outdo Kallis in SA. Yeah
You might be rate about him still being seen as top 15 because it's just a couple of obnoxious blow-ins who seem to have a vendetta against him.

I forgot Donald but he's another bloke who was a lot more celebrated during his career and immediately after than he is now on here. Might be another one underrated because of edgelordism.

 

[ma1978]

I didn't say his career but era. He was the best batsman of his generation. And this is a typical revisionist post which underplays his strengths and overplays his weaknesses. He had trouble against Harbhajan but he did very well against Murali in SL so can't have been a hopeless player of spin and I doubt someone with serious issues against movement could outdo Kallis in SA. Yeah
You might be rate about him still being seen as top 15 because it's just a couple of obnoxious blow-ins who seem to have a vendetta against him.

I forgot Donald but he's another bloke who was a lot more celebrated during his career and immediately after than he is now on here. Might be another one underrated because of edgelordism.

the term edgelordism describes a lot of player ratings here were people see stats and miss the context. Also want to have “finds”. We will see a playercomparisons thread pretty soon comparing Shakib to Ponting.

Ponting is every bit in the same league as Lara and Tendulkar, may be the tniest smidge behind them but was the most feared bat of the 2010s by a margin

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Underrated XI:

Hanif Mohammad. Extremely long career where he debuted as a teen and played through the toughest era for batting. Averaged more than Simpson and Lawry when his career overlapped with theirs.

Bill Ponsford: better than Morris and Simpson also as far as Aussie openers go but rarely mentioned.

Ricky Ponting: suffers from longevity bias and edgelordism. Best batsman of an era.

Javed Miandad: was seen as an equal for Border if not better during their careers but has been downgraded to sub ATG status for some reason. Nobody mentions him owning Hadlee into oblivion home and away.

Andy Flower: was the best batsman in the world for a time. Unfortunately check-listed to look less monumental than he was occasionally.

Clem Hill: better than Trumper. Played some clutch knocks that fly under the radar because they weren't huge scores.

Colin Cowdrey: first to play 100 tests. Longevity bias again. Better record than Dexter, May etc after as many matches as they played.

John Waite: Knott before Knott.

Ray Lindwall: elite. Unusually long career by the standards of the time again. As good as Davo after the same number of matches.

Brian Statham: people tend to over rate solid consistently 8/10 seamers compared to relatively flashier flashes in the pan like Harris and Tyson.

Dennis Lillee: can we just not anymore? This is dumb, it was always dumb and has run its course now.

Lance Gibbs: people don't realise the statistical penalty of playing 2 decades on awful pitches.

A common theme for most of these.

Agreed with your take on Ponsford and Hill. I wouldn’t call Hill better than Trumper or even quite as much close but definitely a contender for first 2 ATG Australian Xi. Ponsford as well, his weakness against pace is made out off than it should be especially while comparing to someone like Simpson and Morris.

I would want to give a mention to Charles Macartney as well. A very fine batsman and a useful bowler. Never see him being mentioned in the First 2 Australian ATG Xi.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Ponting is every bit in the same league as Lara and Tendulkar, may be the tniest smidge behind them but was the most feared bat of the 2010s by a margin

Lol. Only thing Ponting did in 2010s was being Ishant's bunny

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Overrated XI:

Sehwag
Hayden
Ponting
Dravid
Root
ABD
Ashwin
Philander
Lillee
Trueman
Roberts

Averages flatter them

 

[ma1978]

Lol. Only thing Ponting did in 2010s was being Ishant's bunny

edgelord

 

[ma1978]

Overrated XI:

Sehwag
Hayden
Ponting
Dravid
Root
ABD
Ashwin
Philander
Lillee
Trueman
Roberts

Averages flatter them

mother thanLillee everyone underrated on this forum

 

[Coronis]

There's a double standard that we propagate when discussing all rounders.

No one compares Imran or Hadlee with specialists batsmen, they are compared to lower order batsmen, but Kallis is often compared to specialists bowlers.

100%.

At best Kallis is going to be a 5th bowler in a team (4th if the wicket is pace friendly) - he is an excellent bowler for this role.

That would have been his match figures of 10-154 at the MCG. I watched that on TV and it was first class. On the other hand, over here in the West he disappointed with 4-162 at the WACA.

I only watched Murali’s tests in Australia live so I don’t rate him for ****. You are literally cherry picking mate.

Overrated XI

Saeed Anwar: A little overrated considering his short career.
Bob Simpson: Only judged on his opening record despite the fact that he dropped down the order a lot even during his 'peak' and opened in a soft era which isn't held against him unlike modern openers.
Ken Barrington: Short career, soft era but big flashy numbers sway some simpletons.
Jacques Kallis: Supremely overrated as an AR. Not better than Worrell or Dexter.
AB De Villiers: There were about 10 better batsmen during his career.
Allan Border: escapes the scrutiny other makers of pretty 50s and lower order refugees receive.
Keeper: idk.
Alan Davidson: batting is an utter myth based on Shield performances which were incredibly inflated considering every other notable Aussie AR was a much worse test batsman than FC. Short career also.
Shaun Pollock:
Harold Larwood: he's basically a one series wonder like Duanne Olivier. Objectively a nobody.
Graeme Swann: huge test spam beneficiary and a coward.
Alec Bedser/Fazal Mahmood: third seamer was a tough call so I'm just going for old timey HTBs who often get less criticism than modern HTBs.

You and @Line and Length should form a we hate Kallis club. And you call the Lillee hate played out….

Also I don’t think I’ve seen people here espousing Davidson’s batting much? Or calling him an AR? I’d call him an ATG bowler who can bat a bit. Same as Lindwall, Marshall, Warne

Completely agree wrt Larwood. The fact that he was the fastest bowler of his time and that it happened to be the most controversial test series of all time has him massively overrated.

I suppose a merely "useful" bowler could do this:

ENG vs SA Cricket Scorecard, 4th Test at Leeds, August 21 - 25, 2003

Get cricket scorecard of 4th Test, ENG vs SA, South Africa tour of England and Ireland 2003 at Headingley, Leeds dated August 21 - 25, 2003.

www.espncricinfo.com

That’s an absolutely shocking SA attack. Gotta be one of their worst. Almost like Kallis stepped up and took charge since that was the case.

Ponting is every bit in the same league as Lara and Tendulkar, may be the tniest smidge behind them but was the most feared bat of the 2010s by a margin

If this was your conclusion from cricket last decade it explains a lot of your other poor takes.

 

[ma1978]

100%.

At best Kallis is going to be a 5th bowler in a team (4th if the wicket is pace friendly) - he is an excellent bowler for this role.



I only watched Murali’s tests in Australia live so I don’t rate him for ****. You are literally cherry picking mate.



You and @Line and Length should form a we hate Kallis club. And you call the Lillee hate played out….

Also I don’t think I’ve seen people here espousing Davidson’s batting much? Or calling him an AR? I’d call him an ATG bowler who can bat a bit.

Completely agree wrt Larwood. The fact that he was the fastest bowler of his time and that it happened to be the most controversial test series of all time has him massively overrated.



That’s an absolutely shocking SA attack. Gotta be one of their worst. Almost like Kallis stepped up and took charge since that was the case.



If this was your conclusion from cricket last decade it explains a lot of your other poor takes.

it was an obvious fat finger typo. So no opus it’s not worth correcting

and given your take on Richards you have zero credibility

 

[Coronis]

it was an obvious fat finger typo. So no opus it’s not worth correcting

and given your take on Richards you have zero credibility

Again, your other posts make this extremely not obvious.

 

[trundler]

You and @Line and Length should form a we hate Kallis club. And you call the Lillee hate played out….

Also I don’t think I’ve seen people here espousing Davidson’s batting much? Or calling him an AR? I’d call him an ATG bowler who can bat a bit.

Just being fair in delulu land.

The Davidson stuff is definitely a thing. Don't think bowlers are as egregiously over or under rated either way but I also think Davidson doesn't get the longevity asterix other players with similar length careers do.

 

[ma1978]

Again, your other posts make this extremely not obvious.

says the fabulist who posts about Viv Richards

 

[Adorable Asshole]

edgelord

Atleast I'm not a delulu like you.

 

[ma1978]

says the fabulist who posts about Viv Richards

not the one with the weird Kohli boner

 

[Adorable Asshole]

not the one with the weird Kohli boner

You have split personality disorder, mate?